Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: samlee99 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2019 12:51
Quote:David@Sarries
Nigel is responding in The Telegraph. “It’s all above board” “PRL can come and review our books anytime”.
Reassuring.
Nice try but even you can't believe that can you?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2019 12:52 by samlee99.
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2019 12:55
Quote:samlee99Quote:David@Sarries
Nigel is responding in The Telegraph. “It’s all above board” “PRL can come and review our books anytime”.
Reassuring.
Nice try but even you can't believe that can you?
And right on que Here is one of them David!
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: Bracklesham Bay (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2019 13:10
Quote:Wayoutwest
Unfortunately David it still wont be enough for some as they want to believe its true. Sad really.
You are right Wayout but most seem to be bitter fans of a once great club who haven't won anything since 2008.
Must be very frustrating for them along with not being able to keep their top players.
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: 1876-Fez (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2019 14:04
Quote:WayoutwestQuote:samlee99Quote:David@Sarries
Nigel is responding in The Telegraph. “It’s all above board” “PRL can come and review our books anytime”.
Reassuring.
Nice try but even you can't believe that can you?
And right on que Here is one of them David!
Fish in a barrel... fish in a barrel!!
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Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: David@Sarries (IP Logged)
Date: 09 March, 2019 00:57
As I said in the other thread, the haters are going to hate.
Nigel is first and foremost a business man; rugby is a very expensive hobby/passion for him but without his reputation he has neither if it’s proved beyond doubt that he has lied.
IMHO, he’s not going to lie but that’s just me. For those “supporting” other clubs there is nothing that we can do to unequivocally prove that the club is not cheating; whatever we or the club say they will always say “you’re cheating but we don’t know how YET“. This, I believe, is called a conspiracy theory and ranks right up there with man didn’t land on the moon and that the Americans blew up the twin towers to justify the wars that they’d already planned.
Nigel is first and foremost a business man; rugby is a very expensive hobby/passion for him but without his reputation he has neither if it’s proved beyond doubt that he has lied.
IMHO, he’s not going to lie but that’s just me. For those “supporting” other clubs there is nothing that we can do to unequivocally prove that the club is not cheating; whatever we or the club say they will always say “you’re cheating but we don’t know how YET“. This, I believe, is called a conspiracy theory and ranks right up there with man didn’t land on the moon and that the Americans blew up the twin towers to justify the wars that they’d already planned.
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
Date: 09 March, 2019 01:19
My impression of the current speculation, as opposed to a few years ago, is that fans in general are being far more circumspect with their comments. This haters thing isn't really a thing aside from one or two.
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: maynas (IP Logged)
Date: 09 March, 2019 11:18
Quote:Wayoutwest
What makes me so angry about these hacks is that they never apologise if and when they are proved wrong. You sort of expect more from the Times...
You obviously don’t read the Times much, it’s really deteriorated in recent years
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: Duncan96 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 March, 2019 12:44
The more I think about this the more I think Austin Healey was right on BT Sport last Friday:
Saracens should be congratulated and commended for what they have done.
What do we know: Companies were set up jointly owned by Nigel Wray and certain players. The names of the companies signposted who was involved, they were English companies, and the ownership and accounts are publically available at Companies House.
The companies took out 2 loans to buy properties. Based on my knowledge of Property companies (and I have some knowledge and experience here) one of those loans will be a bank loan on the cheapest terms possible, and the other will be provided or guaranteed by NW and/or the players.
Even if the loan is only at NW's risk (which might be right but equally the players might be at risk as well) when the properties were bought nothing of value was transferred to the players because there were no net assets in the company.
What has been done is just downright clever and admirable. Players have been brought emotionally closer to the club because the owner, who has made a lot of money out property in the past, has used his expertise to set players up in business with him and HOPEFULLY created something valuable for them in the future (although I can say that the market for properties in Bermondsey has not been good over the past year!).
It's an idea that follows on from the way the club arranged for Greene King to help Alistair Hargreaves and Chris Wyles get started in the brewing business with Wolfpack and Brad Barrit in the coffee business.
If these facts are right, and I expect they are because everything has been declared to PRL, then instead of complaining, fans of other clubs should be asking those clubs why they also aren't using equally commendable ways to create loyalty among their top players
Saracens should be congratulated and commended for what they have done.
What do we know: Companies were set up jointly owned by Nigel Wray and certain players. The names of the companies signposted who was involved, they were English companies, and the ownership and accounts are publically available at Companies House.
The companies took out 2 loans to buy properties. Based on my knowledge of Property companies (and I have some knowledge and experience here) one of those loans will be a bank loan on the cheapest terms possible, and the other will be provided or guaranteed by NW and/or the players.
Even if the loan is only at NW's risk (which might be right but equally the players might be at risk as well) when the properties were bought nothing of value was transferred to the players because there were no net assets in the company.
What has been done is just downright clever and admirable. Players have been brought emotionally closer to the club because the owner, who has made a lot of money out property in the past, has used his expertise to set players up in business with him and HOPEFULLY created something valuable for them in the future (although I can say that the market for properties in Bermondsey has not been good over the past year!).
It's an idea that follows on from the way the club arranged for Greene King to help Alistair Hargreaves and Chris Wyles get started in the brewing business with Wolfpack and Brad Barrit in the coffee business.
If these facts are right, and I expect they are because everything has been declared to PRL, then instead of complaining, fans of other clubs should be asking those clubs why they also aren't using equally commendable ways to create loyalty among their top players
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
Date: 10 March, 2019 13:24
Absolutely. I have also been saying the much same thing Duncan. Life after professional rugby is a pretty traumatic change, the closest analogy probably being leaving the armed forces - partularly after being in an elite unit, though of course before anyone shoots me down (pardon the pun) ex players obviously haven't seen extreme trauma, thank goodness! Emotionally and physically retirement is really tough to deal with - but if the boys also have financial and employment worries, it can be almost impossible. We all saw the devastating RPA report about the 62% of ex rugby players suffering mental health issues after retirement - and we have read about far too many ex players who have taken their own lives - the most recent being only being in February this year. He almost certainly won't be the last, sadly. That 62% figure is almost certainly an underestimate as there are issues that affect every single player. It is not and cannot be the clubs' responsibility to look after players after retirement of course, but any decent club will and should do all it reasonably can to practically ensure that the process they loosely term 'transition' is as smooth as that word implies. The RPA now has half a dozen Player Development managers in place (1 per two clubs) to help this to happen and all the clubs are now taking this more seriously - but as ever, Saracens have been ahead of the rest by a long, long way and have had a player development programme in place for years - which for example has helped Brad with Tiki Tonga, Alistair and Chris with Wolfpack and various others move into real jobs with a defined path after retirement.
I feel very very strongly about this, in case you hadnt noticed and have raised this before on this very board - I find it unbearable to imagine that someone I have known could be reduced to such a low ebb. We arent talking about it anywhere near enough in my opinion and I believe many simply liken it to simply retiring from a long term career and underestimate the problems. Some of the issues are the same of course - but there are many additional problems that stem from being not just an elite athlete, but an elite athlete in a TEAM sport that doesnt pay the wages that will allow a comfortable financial retirement, even right at the top! Strange that I find myself agreeing with Austin - but he has been through it himself - and we should all be listening.
I feel very very strongly about this, in case you hadnt noticed and have raised this before on this very board - I find it unbearable to imagine that someone I have known could be reduced to such a low ebb. We arent talking about it anywhere near enough in my opinion and I believe many simply liken it to simply retiring from a long term career and underestimate the problems. Some of the issues are the same of course - but there are many additional problems that stem from being not just an elite athlete, but an elite athlete in a TEAM sport that doesnt pay the wages that will allow a comfortable financial retirement, even right at the top! Strange that I find myself agreeing with Austin - but he has been through it himself - and we should all be listening.
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: Roger G (IP Logged)
Date: 10 March, 2019 13:36
I missed it - what did Healey say?
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 13 March, 2019 11:03
If clubs or the system is rotten then tear it down.
Banish clubs in breach from top flight.
And that applies to any club in breach, don't care who they are.
If rugby is perceived as 'bent' which many 'fans' would probably think it is, then start with that.
You aren't going to attract new fans if they results are pretty much a foregone conclusion from day one.
It does make me chuckle when rugby tries to take the high ground over football and yet doesn't address this fundemental issue. Imv.
Even laughable eufa can hold its head higher than English rugby authorities.
Banish clubs in breach from top flight.
And that applies to any club in breach, don't care who they are.
If rugby is perceived as 'bent' which many 'fans' would probably think it is, then start with that.
You aren't going to attract new fans if they results are pretty much a foregone conclusion from day one.
It does make me chuckle when rugby tries to take the high ground over football and yet doesn't address this fundemental issue. Imv.
Even laughable eufa can hold its head higher than English rugby authorities.
Re: Times journalist wades in
Posted by: TOKS (IP Logged)
Date: 13 March, 2019 12:47
This really does go round and round, doesn't it. It would appear we've done nothing wrong, have declared it all to PRL, who have "passed" it.
Most people seem to have lost interest already apart from those who don't like us who - surprise, surprise - still don't like us.
Nothing to see, move along.
Most people seem to have lost interest already apart from those who don't like us who - surprise, surprise - still don't like us.
Nothing to see, move along.
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