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O/T The EU Referendum Thread
Posted by: Tomato Soup (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 15:28

Claims to be impartial with regards to the EU vote but continuously repeats the warnings on instability in the markets caused by the vote.

Has done again today.

Its happening Mr Carney, time to shut up and let the people decide.

Also sticking his nose into buy to let landlords again today.

It wasn't the landlords that caused the crash - it was the banks sir. Look a bit closer to home.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2016 22:21 by Stuart Anderton.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: jayeatman (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 15:40

Just possibly Mr Carney has a better insight into the consequences of Brexit than you.

It is amazing how when experts attempt to cast some light on the fog of misinformation coming from both sides of the argument they are told to STFU. Are we supposed to make up our minds based solely on our inbuilt prejudices?



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Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: Tomato Soup (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 15:52

Could it also be that he doesn't?

Could it be that they just add to the confusion? Why do we have to have "sides" in the first place?

There was a time when we hardly heard a peep out of The Bank of England. It now seems that they are the custodians of the economy but more than that they see fit to interfere in our everyday lives for the sake of a headline.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 16:02

Given the ramifications of leaving I'm quite happy for them or anyone else to speak out, on either side. I'm yet to see a convincing argument for leaving though.

I'm certainly happy that an authority are highlighting, continually, the instability that leaving would cause.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 16:23

Quote:
Tomato Soup
Why do we have to have "sides" in the first place?

Because it is a Yes - No vote. or would you be happy with a Maybe that everyone could go for

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: malco (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 16:37

Vested interests abound on both sides.

People need to take the trouble to research the facts to form an informed opinion. This is too important a matter just to rely on taking anything at face value, whichever direction it emanates from.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: Substitute (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 17:01

I have some sympathy for TomatoSoup's position. The bank does seem to be becoming a more public (politicised?) institution and I think that is rather unbecoming and I am more inclined to agree with Mervyn King

Having said that the bank can't predict what will happen if we remain in the EU, and can't predict what will happen if we leave the EU. It is worth, when considering this 'uncertainty', juxtaposing it with the supposed 'certainty' against which it is compared. This 'certainty' is a) pretty uncertain and b) poor in outlook.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: Tomato Soup (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 17:03

Quote:
Hemington
Tomato Soup
Why do we have to have "sides" in the first place?

Because it is a Yes - No vote. or would you be happy with a Maybe that everyone could go for

It's just that the language doesn't have to be so confrontational. What is so frustrating is that we have to take "a side". Even those who are supposed to be impartial such as The Bank of England and our prime minister have taken a side.

Once we take a side we can't be impartial as we have to defend our opinion and attack the other side.

The Establishment has made its choice. No reasoned argument will change it even if it is the wrong choice for the majority of the people in our country.

The sad fact - yes fact is that the groups that are calling for us to remain comprise of those seeking to retain or gain power such as Politicians, Bureaucrats, Diplomats, Quangocrats and Lawyers. This is no coincidence.

They are followed by those seeking money - Bankers, Financiers and Tycoons. They constitute the whole of the remain campaign to a man.

The Banks and Politicians together - no facts and no hope of getting any - Please wake up before its too late - unless you are a banker or lawyer or politician etc..

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 17:25

Quote:
Tomato Soup
The sad fact - yes fact is that the groups that are calling for us to remain comprise of those seeking to retain or gain power such as Politicians, Bureaucrats, Diplomats, Quangocrats and Lawyers. This is no coincidence.

They are followed by those seeking money - Bankers, Financiers and Tycoons. They constitute the whole of the remain campaign to a man.

The Banks and Politicians together - no facts and no hope of getting any - Please wake up before its too late - unless you are a banker or lawyer or politician etc..

I am only a member of the public and none of the above and I am a "Bremainer". I had no idea that I was the only one. How thrilling!



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/03/2016 00:52 by joethefanatic.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 17:32

The Bank of England started appearing more politicised and independent when the government made it more politicised and independent by having responsibility for setting rates.

Quote:
What is so frustrating is that we have to take "a side". Even those who are supposed to be impartial such as The Bank of England and our prime minister have taken a side.

Good God, why shouldn't the Prime Minister take a side?

Quote:
It's just that the language doesn't have to be so confrontational.

I know, it's appalling, such as...

Quote:
No reasoned argument will change it even if it is the wrong choice for the majority of the people in our country
Quote:
the groups that are calling for us to remain comprise of those seeking to retain or gain power
Quote:
They are followed by those seeking money...They constitute the whole of the remain campaign to a man.

Can you see how that might come across as confrontational? Or is that language only unacceptable from people you disagree with.

Quote:
The Establishment has made its choice.

So, who leads the exit campaign? Lots of anti-establishment types? Like... the Mayor of London, the leader of UKIP, the ex-work and pensions secretary and the leader of the house of commons. And it's funded by City millionaires.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 17:59

Personally I feel that the Government and Bank of England are using their position to "advise" the people of this country how they should vote. I do not feel I am getting balanced information.

If the argument is such a clear and easy decision why load the dice?

It seems to me that the main 'stay in' argument is an economic one. However, there is a proportion of the UK population who can see economic change a long way off in the distance. I suspect that those in that situation won't care about the economics and decide on security issues instead.

European terrorist attacks by armed individuals perceived as having crossed unprotected borders will heighten anxiety greatly. Sadly I believe this will have a greater affect on the result than any economically argued discussion.

Whatever the outcome in June there will be no definite result, debate will continue until Europe comes up with: 1) a workable policy for immigration. and 2) a settled 'Middle East'.

Don't hold your breath ! I doubt the status quo will change, but I also doubt it will be for the right reasons.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 18:15

I expect the vote to be for remain for little reason beyond there's not a compelling case to leave and there's a lot of uncertainty - and people in this country rarely vote to change the status quo. The only thing that causes me some reluctance in that prediction is that the demographic for people most likely to want to vote to leave (over 50s) lines up with the demographic for people most likely to vote at all. The younger generation are largely in favour of staying, but less likely to vote.

I'm unsure about the whole thing - obviously the EU bureaucracy is massively flawed and inefficient. At the same time I'm very disappointed that the UK government has never properly engaged with making a good case for a smaller, more efficient EU. But the majority of people who are leading the leave campaign are fairly obnoxious and appear to have some bizarre delusion that the influence of Empire will be ours again should we just leave the EU.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: The Oilman (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 18:27

The referendum was supposed to be on whether to remain or leave a reformed EU.
Nobody has explained to my satisfaction what has been reformed.
Perhaps someone on this forum could enlighten me?

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: jayeatman (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 18:29

Leaving the 'establishment' and tin hat conspiracy theories out of it for a moment, a majority think Brexit is risky economically. The question is, whether the economy going up or down a point or few is more important to your average voter than other more emotive issues such as immigration. If the moneyed 'establishment' are the only ones to benefit from good economic performance, which has certainly been the case for the last few years with stagnant wages and welfare cuts, don't be surprised if Joe Public ignores the economic argument and goes for the anti-immigration, anti-EU ones.
I don't buy the terrorist argument BTW. Most or our terrorists have been home grown. Better exchange of intel with our EU partners and everybody else, especially Turkey is the way to go.



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Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2016 18:38

Quote:
The Oilman
The referendum was supposed to be on whether to remain or leave a reformed EU.
Nobody has explained to my satisfaction what has been reformed.
Perhaps someone on this forum could enlighten me?

Not a lot. The main point is probably that, for the next 7 years, we wouldn't have to provide EU migrants with full benefits for their first four years in the country. That's actually consistent with what a lot of countries did when the EU expanded in early 2000s, we just were very generous then.

Agree with jayeatman on the terrorism issue. A lot more home grown terrorists than those from within the EU.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: fat lock (IP Logged)
Date: 30 March, 2016 08:04

Not that I claim t understand things more than anyone else but the difficulty in deciding seems to be that we are comparing apples to oranges.
The reason to leave seems to be a political one - to gain more control of boundaries (ie the Calais Jungle would move to Dover)and political decisions -agriculture policy etc.
The reason to stay seems quite clearly a financial one - the country will be more stable financially better off if we stay.
No-one can clearly detail the trade off between more autonomy will cost so much money.

So ultimately I think it will come down to an emotional decision rather than a considered choice based on facts. Do we want to be part of Europe - gaining from the stability that offers accepting that we lose some autonomy to gain that.

Personally I'd be pi55ed off if the Bank of England were not advising us on what they see as the potential financial consequences of leaving. The financial experts need to educate us. In the same way I'd like to hear more about the political and societal consequences of leaving from the politicians.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 30 March, 2016 08:27

Eh? If there is one institution I want to hear from its the Bank of England, along with every other institution who has a vested interest in the prosperity of the UK and an expert opinion on the economy.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 30 March, 2016 08:51

Are there any people who were for Scotland remaining part of the UK but against us remaining in the EU?

It feels like there might be a lot of people in that camp, but I really struggle to see how you hold those opinions (other than through a lack of perspective)? I'd be genuinely interested to know.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: TOKS (IP Logged)
Date: 30 March, 2016 09:16

Another ramification of leaving the EU is that dozens, nay hundreds, of treaties will have to be re-negotiated with Britain as a single country. Now it may well be that, upon re-negotiation and without the baggage of the rest of Europe, we may be able to negotiate a far better deal for Britain with the likes of India, China, Brazil etc. However, the cynic in me can't help thinking that one of the reasons that many politicians are in the "remain" camp is that they really can't be a***d to re-negotiate thousands of treaties.

I'll be cryptic about the industry I'm in but a few weeks ago all companies in this sector got a letter from the quasi head of the industry. Basically it drew attention to all of the treaties we have in place with the rest of Europe. It was quite (well very) strongly worded and, reading between the lines, it basically said that if we vote to leave I'm going to have to spend all summer working and not have my usual two months in my villa in Spain! I'm rather inclined to think that the future of our country is slightly more important!

There is still the best part of three months to go before the vote. Let's hope we get some clarity on the issues/ramifications before that time so that we can make an informed decision.

Re: O/T The Bank of England
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 30 March, 2016 09:28

"we may be able to negotiate a far better deal for Britain with the likes of India, China, Brazil etc"

Why would this be true? As a smaller, less powerful entity aren't we are more likely to end up with a considerably worse deal, if any at all?

I really don't believe it is because they can't be arsed, in fact if there was something in it for them (there would be if it was a beneficial deal), I think they'd leap to it.

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