Current Page: 1 of 2
13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: IanRed (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 17:31

According to mail online

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Stephen Abootman (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 17:43

What chance of that meeting happening if we'd gone down I wonder.

Anyway, 13 teams with a play-off at the end of the season would be fine with me.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: A38 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 18:42

Timing is right with the 12 th place in the Premiership decided.

Money will be the driver here - particularly increased funding for the Championship.

The Newcastle board mentions an article in the Telegraph which has much the same story.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: kiddykid (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 19:18

I have never quite got my head around the fact that 13 clubs hold Prem shares - but only 12 can play!! It couldn't happen anywhere else......could it?

A 13 - strong Prem with a play off? Yup, it could work. Let's try it and pray that we are not the 13th!

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Abmatt (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 19:34

Get it done and put this to bed.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 20:01

Really bad “solution” to the problem, this.

If they want to shut up shop, then p1ss thousands of fans off and shut up shop. If they want to keep the league open, then just leave it open.

Don’t bring in an end of season play off that would mean:

A- Neither the Championship team nor the 13th Premiership team would be able to recruit until June
B - The relegated Premiership side would very possibly go bust, due to the fact that they wouldn’t then come back up.

Imagine if we finished 13th and got relegated, only to find us winning the Championship by a landslide by then facing Leicester home and away to get promoted. We wouldn’t get near to winning and we’d then be screwed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2019 23:34 by WorcesterSauce.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: A38 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 21:23

WS: I believe that your point A shouldn't have a double negative. But that's being picky. You are quite right.

What we don't also know is what would happen to the parachute payment.But you are quite right again. If a Championship team, having been a Premiership team, could not get back to the Premiership then a great deal of rationalisation would be required.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Stephen Abootman (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 21:45

Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Don’t bring in an end of season play off that would mean:

A- Neither the Championship team and 13th Premiership team couldn’t recruit until June
B - The relegated Premiership side would very possibly go bust, due to the fact that they wouldn’t then come back up.

Imagine if we finished 13th and got relegated, only to find us winning the Championship by a landslide by then facing Leicester home and away to get promoted. We wouldn’t get near to winning and we’d then be screwed.

Don't quite follow the logic there. We rarely know what league we'll be in until about May anyway but still manage to recruit well beforehand. And if Leicester fall so far that they can't get more points in the league than Ealing or whoever, I don't think we should be overly concerned.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 12 May, 2019 23:37

A38 - picky but right, it made little sense!

SA - quite right, although i think we do struggle with recruitment because we are constantly in the relegation battle this probably wouldn’t change by much. My point was more that this would be extended to the Championship... i very much doubt that London Irish would have snapped up their already announced players if they had a play off vs Newcastle still to come, for instance.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: dudleywarrior88 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 00:02

If anyone other than Ealing got promoted to the premiership they would likely go bankrupt based on current financial models or wouldn't be able to sign any quality players therefore finishing bottom and probably lose the play off anyway. By only allowing clubs with enough up front capital to run the club in the premiership would probably be a requirement of promotion.

Equally no grounds in the championship other than Leeds would meet premiership standards.

Surely if one of the 13 dropped out they would use any of the above to prevent the championship team getting promotion. This would be a great way to close up shop by not actually stopping relegation but making in difficult for the championship team to actually get promoted.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Fiver (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 08:13

Ringfencing, but without actually ringfencing, was tried years ago with the aim to keep out the likes of us and Rotherham. It didn't work, both Exeter and Warriors built the stadiums necessary and got into the big time. Welsh needed a legal team, but in fairness should have taken the hint.

The simple fact is that the finances simply don't add up for promotion and relegation anymore. It doesn't matter what a handful of fans really want. Clubs will start going bust if we carry on with a 12 team premiership. England players aren't getting the proper development because you panic and sign a southern hemisphere player instead. Why did Sale fly in the Du Preez brothers? Why didn't they pluck from the academy like they do in Ireland?

How many fans will leave if we lose promotion/relegation? Hardly any most likely, you might even gain a few if the likes of Worcester can now sign some big name players. You might even get a broader spread of England players around more teams. That will increase attendances also.

The facts are what they are. Whether you like it or not, it's inevitable. As soon as Newcastle got relegated CVC were always going to try something to keep them up. The money dictates that you need a presence across as much of the country as possible. As such, I'm not so sure they'd have worried about us. Nothing personal, it's just geography.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 08:27

Quote:
Stephen Abootman
What chance of that meeting happening if we'd gone down I wonder.

Exactly the same. Moving on.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Malvern Man (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 10:58

This seems quite sensible to me. There are 13 clubs with professional facilities, players and aspirations, so why shouldn't they be the Premiership. There should always be a chink in the door for any rising Championship club, and the two-leg play-off offers this.

In the professional era, two clubs have broken through. Exeter have risen to the heights and Worcester have hung on, only just at times. Would either have beaten the bottom Premiership club to get promoted? Exeter certainly would, and I reckon we'd have got there in the end.

Another advantage of a bigger league is an increased number of proper fixtures against cup games.

The struggle at the bottom of the league would still be fierce. Would anybody fancy the play-off? I don't think so.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Devonianwarrior (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 11:57

Exeter wouldn't have been in the play off in the proposed scenario as they finished 2nd to Bristol by 4 points but beat them in the play offs the year they came up.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 12:33

Quote:
Devonianwarrior
Exeter wouldn't have been in the play off in the proposed scenario as they finished 2nd to Bristol by 4 points but beat them in the play offs the year they came up.

Ditto for us the last time we came up, under Ryan. Bristol finished top that season, too.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: usa warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 12:35

Announcement from HQ this afternoon...

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: Faithful_City (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 17:19

A bit late then??

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 18:11

Quote:
Fiver
Ringfencing, but without actually ringfencing, was tried years ago with the aim to keep out the likes of us and Rotherham. It didn't work, both Exeter and Warriors built the stadiums necessary and got into the big time. Welsh needed a legal team, but in fairness should have taken the hint.
The simple fact is that the finances simply don't add up for promotion and relegation anymore. It doesn't matter what a handful of fans really want. Clubs will start going bust if we carry on with a 12 team premiership. England players aren't getting the proper development because you panic and sign a southern hemisphere player instead. Why did Sale fly in the Du Preez brothers? Why didn't they pluck from the academy like they do in Ireland?

How many fans will leave if we lose promotion/relegation? Hardly any most likely, you might even gain a few if the likes of Worcester can now sign some big name players. You might even get a broader spread of England players around more teams. That will increase attendances also.

The facts are what they are. Whether you like it or not, it's inevitable. As soon as Newcastle got relegated CVC were always going to try something to keep them up. The money dictates that you need a presence across as much of the country as possible. As such, I'm not so sure they'd have worried about us. Nothing personal, it's just geography.

So what i’m taking from this is....

London Welsh should’ve taken the hint the big boys didn’t want the nasty little championship team in the Prem and bowed down and not accepted promotion. They should not have then not taken the relevant governing body to court (and won) and not been the victim of a terrible fraud offence whereby the perpetrator ended up in prison...

That “only a handful” of fans want promotion and relegation despite the fact that loads of polls on social media suggest it is very much the majority, including many many players and journalists.

That clubs will definitely start going bust from now on if promotion/relegation remains.

That ring fencing will mean world class overseas players like Hougaard being blocked by a substandard scrum half, in the name of them being English (essentially we all become England feeder clubs).

That Worcester would somehow be suddenly able to sign some “big name players” (but of course they wouldn’t be able to be overseas players)...

That somehow these big name English players we sign will increase attendances and that attendances would most likely increase, despite the fact that our biggest attendances, historically are almost always when they have a lot riding on them in terms of going up or down.

That had we gone down we’d have been thrown under the bus by CVC


The facts are what they are, though...

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: usa warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 13 May, 2019 21:23

Quote:
Faithful_City
A bit late then??

Announced that they were giving 1000 tickets to military families for the Prem final. Laudable, but not sure that’s what was expected.

Re: 13 team premiership with immediate effect?
Posted by: PMB (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2019 08:20

Sadly I think that this will happen sooner rather than later although you could argue that the disparity in funding between the championship and prem is part ring fencing anyway. Talk of promoted sides to the prem facing going bust is a tad harsh, how many existing prem side are "trading while insolvent"? Only Exeter make a profit the others rely on funding from elsewhere writing off debts on a regular basis.

Incidentally, the Sarries limited company "scam" seems to have gone very quiet, is that the sound of carpets being lifted and brushes at the ready that I can hear?

If ring fencing existed now how much interest would there have been in the recent rounds of matches?

Current Page: 1 of 2
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net