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England in Argentina
Posted by: ChiefinGlos (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 09:52

Hi all,

Apart from Jack being with the Lions, some other good news:

[www.englandrugby.com]

Looks like a fun team. Hopefully Henry will get a good run at 10/12 (maybe with Lozowski partnering), as well as LCD, Harry Williams and Jack Maunder. Chuffed for those guys and for Chiefs. What a great week for Devon

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: CullyChief (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 10:03

Brilliant for those players, however I feel Don Armand and Dave Ewers are very very unfortunate not to be going.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: ChiefinGlos (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 10:27

It is a bit puzzling and gutting for Dave and Don.

Looking at the squad, I think Eddie wants to test the youth a bit (Isiekwe, Curry2, Underhill, Mallinder, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ewels all basically from the U20s) but keep some experience (the only possible reason I can see for Tom Wood to be in the squad rather than Don or Dave). But seeing as people like Tommy Taylor, Dan Robson, Roko, Attwood, etc, who were all in the Saxons tour vs SAA (2-0) aren't there, this squad strikes me as more of an experimental squad than I was expecting, and not necessarily representative of the actual England pecking order. Dave and Don should be there though

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: ExTeddChief (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 10:54

That's still a pretty solid squad overall and great to have four Chiefs in it, even if Maunder and Williams are a massive gamble at international level compared to Don and Dave. Still, enough there to give the Argies a match on home turf.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: CullyChief (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 11:42

Devoto?

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: ChiefinGlos (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 11:44

Interesting that Jack is there rather than Stu. Obviously Eddie likes the look of Maunder's passing game. Williams I think could thrive, but it's a massive shame that Alec Hepburn isn't back, he would have been a shoo-in.

Average age of 241/2 for the forwards (skewed by Tom Wood, Matt Mullan, Chris Robshaw, James Haskell, all 30 or over) and 231/2 for the backs (again skewed by Mike Brown and Danny Care, 31 and 30 respectively). Average squad age of 24 is quite frightening really.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Blue feather (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 12:17

Woodburn could have been in there, especially as Eddie Jones was at Quins.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Hill Barton Brave (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 12:22

Sladey and LCD perhaps expected, Maunder and Williams less so? Although the latter have both been playing superbly for us (and Harry last season too).

I agree Dave and Don can feel a bit unlucky. I'd also add Olly Woodburn to the "must have been close" list. But then you look at the other talent around the country and it's such a tough call.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: fatheralice (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 13:32

Some great EJ quotes about the new faces in the squad (Sm100)....
Quote:
Eddie Jones

ESPN

Will Collier (prop, Harlequins): "Collier is a really steady tight-head. Scrummaging wise he probably has the best body position of anyone in the Premiership, so it is a great opportunity for him."


Ben and Tom Curry (flankers, Sale Sharks): "I'm looking forward to working with the Currys because I want to find out if I can tell the difference between the two of them. We're going to have to find a way to work out who's who. I hear they're very competitive about everything: A-levels, their weight, their haircuts, their girlfriends, everything. I think we'll keep them competing against each other."

Nick Isiekwe (second-row, Saracens): "We have the young guy from Sarries coming in who is potentially a very good player. When you look at where he is now compared to where Maro was when he came into the Six Nations, he is going to be a really good player this boy, a really good player. So he is exciting."

Sam Underhill (back-row, Ospreys/Bath): "He's got good potential as an openside flanker, he's a genuine openside flanker, he's dedicated, he's determined, he's desperate to play for England, we're delighted to have him."

Harry Williams (prop, Exeter Chiefs): "He is a big unit. He needs a haircut though, so I will have to chat to him about that - he is not short of a tattoo though. He is a good scrummager. He has got to work a bit around the field, so we will work on that with him."

Joe Cokanasiga (winger, London Irish): "He's big mate. And he's fast. That's the only thing I see."

Nathan Earle (winger, Saracens): "I'm interested in this Nathan Earle from Saracens. I watched him play ITM Cup for Canterbury and he's got real potential. He's a big, tall guy who's got pace."

Piers Francis (fly-half, Blues/Northampton Saints): "Good, solid player. He's got a good kicking game, he's very good defensively, he likes putting his head in the dark areas. He plays very deep but that's the Kiwi way so we'll have to work on that with him and I'm sure we can."

Sam James (centre, Sale Sharks): "James is a bit like Denny. Sale have a way of producing quite funny sort of players. There's nothing great about him but he finds the line, he finds space and he's strong and has a good feel for the game."

Alex Lozowski (fly-half, Saracens): "Lozowski is a good player, I've been really impressed. I think he's been the best find of the Premiership. He's come in, he's got a nice feel about the game and he's a rugged defender and he kicks his goals. He works hard and he's a good fella."

Harry Mallinder (versatile back, Northampton Saints): "Good player mate. I think he can play 15 and I think he can play centre and I think he can potentially play on the wing. Big, strong lad. Good in the air. Massive kicking game. Kicks the ball 60m. Needs to work on his defence, but for a young player that's okay."

Joe Marchant (centre, Harlequins): "It is exciting, it is a great opportunity for us because you don't usually get this opportunity to bring in a bunch of young, enthusiastic and good players into the squad at one time."

Jack Maunder (scrum-half, Exeter Chiefs): "Maunder's an interesting player. He's a cheeky little @#$%&, that's what I like about him. He's got something about him. His pass is okay but he looks for opportunities, generally makes good decisions and he's a good size of a lad. We're excited by him and he's young. He's only just 20."

Denny Solomona (winger, Sale Sharks): "There's something about him. He finds the line. He's got that ability, when he gets the ball, to score a try."

I hope he has spoken to the second and third choice players who have been overlooked to explain they are not off the radar, just he is using the tour as an opportunity to look at some youngsters he wouldn't otherwise get to see in camp.

Ewers must surely be the next in line to take over from The Hask.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 13:33 by fatheralice.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Zyder head (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 13:33

Congratulations Jack Maunder! That is an incredible rise.
Pleasantly surprised to see Big H on the tour too so well done him. Although disappointed that Dave,Don and Mitch amongst others don't make the tour I am not that surprised.
With Haskell and Robshaw going I didn't really see a spot for Dave or Don but Mitch can count himself unfortunate I think,maybe because of his injury.
I am afraid that the cynical side in me still wonders if Mitch and Don got the call on the Saxons tour last year to make them unavailable for SA and Australia in the future. I sincerely hope that isn't the case but you do wonder considering both are playing better than ever and are probably the most reliable players in a team that is second in the league........

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: fatheralice (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 13:35

SAxons tour to SA did not tie a player to the nation. SA's designated second team was / is still? the Junior Springboks

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: RedExe (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 14:07

Quote:
fatheralice
SAxons tour to SA did not tie a player to the nation. SA's designated second team was / is still? the Junior Springboks

But England's designated 2nd team are the Saxons, and that is what matters. So I think they would be tied to England now. I don't think their inclusion last year was based on anything other than the fact that they deserved to be there. Due to Australia's policy on selection, if Mitch was available, he would only be picked if he went back to Australia to play. I think South Africa are actually planning a similar selection criteria due to the amount of players who are leaving the country.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: ChiefinGlos (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 15:30

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C92OdvKW0AE8RY0.jpg

This may explain the emphasis on youth in the squad

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Little Minnie (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 16:16

Love the comments by Eddie and he seems genuinely interested in Jack M. He does have that sparkle about him when he plays and with the right players / coaches around him I can easily see him being a star of the future. Well done lads - agree shame about Dave and Don but not surprised in many ways.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Poking With Sticks (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 16:52

I doubt this means the end of Ewers', Armand and Lees' England hopes. I doubt Argentina will field a full-strength team so it makes sense to try a few off the wall choices.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Tom A Hawk (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 18:24

Its a team geared towards the youth, Hartley, Brown, Haskell and Robshaw will pretty much be mentors to those coming in. However would much rather proven performers like Don, Dave and Jonny Hill in there instead of the Curry's and a guy who has only played 56 minutes of Premiership Rugby.

Least said about the guy who is still on Auckland's books the better... Taking a spot away from Joe Simmonds...

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Jehovas Sandals (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 19:05

Pleased for both Jack and Harry.
Bit miffed that Don has been overlooked and Woodburn.
Ewers lack of regular appearances injury free may be why he's not going?
Well done those Chiefs boys concerned.



I drink and forget stuff!

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: Currychief (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 21:25

Woodburn has been excellent lately. Short has more of the X factor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 22:40 by Currychief.

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: fatheralice (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 22:04

Quote:
RedExe
Quote:
fatheralice
SAxons tour to SA did not tie a player to the nation. SA's designated second team was / is still? the Junior Springboks

But England's designated 2nd team are the Saxons, and that is what matters. So I think they would be tied to England now. I don't think their inclusion last year was based on anything other than the fact that they deserved to be there. Due to Australia's policy on selection, if Mitch was available, he would only be picked if he went back to Australia to play. I think South Africa are actually planning a similar selection criteria due to the amount of players who are leaving the country.

Needs to be a match between 2 designated first or second teams to tie you....Unless a JWC

Re: England in Argentina
Posted by: RedExe (IP Logged)
Date: 20 April, 2017 23:29

Quote:
fatheralice
Quote:
RedExe
Quote:
fatheralice
SAxons tour to SA did not tie a player to the nation. SA's designated second team was / is still? the Junior Springboks

But England's designated 2nd team are the Saxons, and that is what matters. So I think they would be tied to England now. I don't think their inclusion last year was based on anything other than the fact that they deserved to be there. Due to Australia's policy on selection, if Mitch was available, he would only be picked if he went back to Australia to play. I think South Africa are actually planning a similar selection criteria due to the amount of players who are leaving the country.

Needs to be a match between 2 designated first or second teams to tie you....Unless a JWC

The games last year were certainly against South Africa's 2nd team (just called A team and not the emerging springboks, don't think they use that name any longer). Wales in the past used their U20 team which tied players to Wales as this was effectively their 2nd tier team because they did not have an 'A' team.

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