England squad
Posted by: andy15 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:31

Interesting stat that 4 clubs contribute 66% of the squad make up of which we are not one of them.

Just 3 included from Chiefs itís a bit same old same old from Jones.

Cipriani omission is bizarre and sums up Jones imo.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Shy Ann (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:54

Really cant be bothered with England now.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Delboy92 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 10:00

England training squad

Forwards: Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Michael Rhodes (Saracens), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs: Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Nathan Earle (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Re: England squad
Posted by: clalan (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 11:06

Lets face this Coach has been given a fortune because we beat Australia when they were at a low ebb.
Since then we have done nothing, despite great talent that he usually doesn't pick.
God help us in world cup, his old boy player book players will be even more past it then.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Geronimo Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 11:36

I'm happy with that, Chiefs are way ahead of England in my priorities.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Welsh Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 12:23

I am surprised Symmonds was left out, and for whatever reason Eddie Jones doesn't rate Armand.

As you can probably guess from my handle, I don't really care who plays for England (the worse team he puts out the better as far as I am concerned). As long as Chiefs players don't start feeling they have to move to get international recognition lets hope Eddie keeps omitting our stars!

Cipriani has played well enough to justify a place in the training squad. he has been on great form so far this season but I think his 'Hollywood' passes have probably got people a little carried away by his brilliance!

Re: England squad
Posted by: OldWing (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 14:43

First of all, congratulations to the 3 Chiefs who did get selected - and commiserations to a few more who might have thought they were in with a shout.

I have given up trying to work out EJ's logic towards his selections - if, indeed, there is a logic. By this time, just a year out from the World Cup, you'd think it would be pretty clear who is in England's first choice 15/23, but I'm blowed if I have even the vaguest idea. My worry is that neither does EJ. This training squad raises more questions than it answers in that respect for me. Bringing in John Mitchell (who has no intention of being in this country very much, apparently) as another coach smacks of desperation. Unlike others here, I do want England to do well, and I hope that my worst fears do not come true, but this set of selections does not fill me with confidence.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Chief Fire Water (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 15:26

If I had then choice of watching England win the world cup or Chiefs win the Euro cup, I would watch Chiefs 100% of the time.

Not interested in England, wrong coach in charge with a lot of wrong players in the squad.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Lowerwatha (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 15:42

The appointment of Mitchell as defence coach is astounding. His previous experience suggests attack rather than defence, plus he seems to put everyoneís backs up wherever he goes.
On another story in the Telegraph this morning players have been advised to cover up tattoos in Japan as tattoos there signify the Japanese mafia, Jack Nowell had better take his onesie!

Re: England squad
Posted by: Brent1 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 16:41

Forgive me but Rhodes....very very good player where did he come from? Is Jones simply hoping he can work alongside Kritoje and Billy?
Shields....Henry exposed his defensive capabilities 2 weeks ago and he is another rugby league convert that I'm not convinced by
Who is Nick Schonert? Alright I'll research and not be ignorant...

but to use a Kevin Keegan phrase "I would love it" if whilst Eddie keeps @#$%& about our Chiefs back row spearhead a great Euro campaign U distracted by internationals supported by the likes of Audrey, Wodburner et al

At leat Jones has the sense to see Henry is class, Jack brings something different and Harry is a beast

Re: England squad
Posted by: Jehovas Sandals (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 19:32

I'm more concerned about the Chiefs tbh.
Happy for the boys that get selected but I'm not convinced EJ is the man to take England further than they are now.
Cipriani is talented but a bit of a show pony and those wide throws will get read at international level.
Don will never get a run in any England side that EJ manages. I'm baffled as to why tbh.
I love to see England do well but I'd sooner Chiefs kept hold of our boys



I drink and forget stuff!

Re: England squad
Posted by: Tom A Hawk (IP Logged)
Date: 21 September, 2018 03:54

I see Thomas Waldrom isn't too happy with the lack of Chiefs in the squad.

https://i.gyazo.com/6ea414a644eff5a8f0772b4308a4b34e.png

Re: England squad
Posted by: Scuff (IP Logged)
Date: 21 September, 2018 09:07

Jones is very inconsistent in what he says. Today he says that Cipriani has been left out on form and those calling for him have been duped by his highlight reels. So, he's after unflashy consistent excellence - but not Armand's type of consistent excellence.

Re: England squad
Posted by: andy15 (IP Logged)
Date: 21 September, 2018 10:38

Jones says Fords form over the first 3 games was better than Cips - not sure he watched the first game - didnít Ford and Faz play in our run of losses and cips in the last win 🙄

Re: England squad
Posted by: SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21 September, 2018 14:07

Worth remembering that Lancaster capped both Nowell and Slade (and even Johnson) I honestly wonder whether either would have been capped "fresh" under Jones. I don't know what his issue is but it seems clear to me that he has one.

Tbh better, fairer representation for Chiefs would please me on two levels. That of improving the England team and also to stop Sarries being Jones one-stop solution to most of his problems. It would actually be quite nice to have some of Sarries players during the season too.

For me LCD, Williams, Armand, Simmonds, Sale and Nowell should have all been in the squad for several seasons. Obviously some have but on the fringes and others have but been messed around or played out of position. I know it works for Chiefs but for England I see Simmonds as a 7 fighting it out with Curry for the start not an 8. I just wish someone had suggested to him he play as an inside centre many moons ago. We could really use him there now.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Master Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 22 September, 2018 03:38

The likes of Cowan-Dickie and Simmonds can count themselves very unlucky.

Although having them available during international breaks benefits Exeter, meaning that we can push on for a top two spot, it doesnít benefit us when it comes to the big games...

Sarries army of England players are benefitting from the Test match experience. Look at how Slade has developed and the confidence he has brought back from South Africa.

In the final last year Sarries were by far the better team. Was it the familiarity and confidence of playing at Twickenham, was it their players thriving on the big stage etc etc.

I want to see Exeter do well more than I do England, but I firmly believe that we will only become better as club the more our players play international rugby. So Jones ignorning our players is hurting us... I for one canít wait to see the back of him!

Re: England squad
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 22 September, 2018 06:09

If heís after unflashy consistent excellence then based on last nights performance, Jack Maunder will be back on his radar !

Re: England squad
Posted by: mommentum (IP Logged)
Date: 22 September, 2018 08:13

Quote:
Master Chief
The likes of Cowan-Dickie and Simmonds can count themselves very unlucky.
Although having them available during international breaks benefits Exeter, meaning that we can push on for a top two spot, it doesnít benefit us when it comes to the big games...

Sarries army of England players are benefitting from the Test match experience. Look at how Slade has developed and the confidence he has brought back from South Africa.

In the final last year Sarries were by far the better team. Was it the familiarity and confidence of playing at Twickenham, was it their players thriving on the big stage etc etc.

I want to see Exeter do well more than I do England, but I firmly believe that we will only
become better as club the more our players play international rugby. So Jones ignorning our players is hurting us... I for one canít wait to see the back of him!

Totally agree.

It's very understandable that a lot of Saracens players get to play for England, they have won Euro cups and any international team has to pick a way to play and have players that believe in that way. Some of the England coaches have Sarries connections.

But players from some other clubs that have been quite average is hard to understand

Re: England squad
Posted by: Marconi (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 22:27

Quote:
Brent1
Shields....Henry exposed his defensive capabilities 2 weeks ago and he is another rugby league convert that I'm not convinced by

Definitely nothing to do with rugby league.. Shields put in some good work against Chiefs before his meeting with Stu Townsends head, though Slade did show him up (won't be the last). Given that it was his first game after only just a weeks training, can't be too harsh.

Re: England squad
Posted by: Lowerwatha (IP Logged)
Date: 24 September, 2018 04:37

Brian Moore makes some interesting comments in his column this morning:

Where England are under Jones no one knows Ė and that is what worries me
The looming autumn internationals are assuming an importance out of all proportion to their usual place in Englandís rugby calendar. It is not just that it is the last chance England will get to play the southern-hemisphere giants before Japan 2019, it is also the form shown recently by South Africa and Argentina and that nobody has any idea where Eddie Jones and his England team are at the moment.
Are England merely stuttering after such a long period of improvement or have they hit a metaphorical wall, needing fresh ideas and rapid solutions to technical problems that have been exposed by observant opponents?

With that in mind, the announcement of the recent training squad was awaited with relish. There will always be justifiable arguments about selection because it is a trade-off between players who have proved their case in the past, those on form and the few who have just emerged and show huge potential.
Jonesís past claim was that form is essential, irrespective of previous performance or ability. With that in mind, you can see why some of his picks have confused some and angered others. There is no way he can explain some of his picks without saying that in several cases he has departed from his previous criteria.
Naturally, the headlines focused on the omission of Danny Cipriani Ė and with good reason. Unless Jones has been watching different games to the rest of us, it is impossible to agree with his assessment that, on form, Cipriani is third choice behind George Ford and Owen Farrell. Jones stated that Cipriani knows what areas of his game he has to work on, but the coach would save himself a lot of heat if he shared that information. As it is, many are simply left to conclude that other factors are at play, which is never good.
Chris Ashtonís ban means he has no form at all this season and Ben Teío and Manu Tuilagi have had so little game time recently that it is impossible to judge their current status. What you have to bear in mind is that Jones has always wanted a physical presence in the middle, and only injury has prevented him from picking one of these two power players. If one of them is anything like fit, they will be included in Jonesís squad. Is this fair on other centres? Possibly not, and Jones would do better to declare his preference publicly so that all know where they stand.
It is no surprise that plenty of discussion surrounded the back row, given that its balance has been the most visible of all Englandís current deficiencies.
Though the selections must have been marginal, the case for, say, Tom Curry over Sam Underhill or Matt Kvesic is hard to rationalise. We are still no wiser as to Jonesís pecking order for Englandís No 7 and it is strange that he appears prepared to state his one, two and three at No 10, but not elsewhere.
Yesterday was potentially a showdown between Farrell and Cipriani, and the chance for the wayward son to make a definitive statement in this debate. As it turned out, Saracens were so dominant that only their England aspirants shone and Gloucesterís pretensions to sit at the highest domestic table were given a rude correction. The result would have been disappointing for the West Country side, but few teams win at Allianz Park.
More troubling must have been that several Saracens regulars were on the bench and Gloucester still failed to challenge them credibly in any facet of the game.
There have been so many false dawns at Kingsholm, but there were signs that this time it might be different. Unfortunately, the Gloucester faithful must, it seems, keep waiting.
On the positive side, nearly all Saracensí England hopefuls appeared not only to be fit, but looked sharp, which is in stark contrast to this time last season. The options provided by players such as Alex Lozowski, Nick Isiekwe and Michael Rhodes give Mark McCall, the Saracens director of rugby, and Jones flexibility without compromising on quality.
The case of Rhodes to fill either the six or seven position continues to grow, yet here we are forced to make the same point that has been made with his challengers. Whoever is chosen should, ideally, be playing in that position for his club and he must be given a full campaign to make his case.
There are only two such groups of fixtures left: the autumn internationals and the Six Nations. After that we are into the World Cup warm-up games, where it should be a case of honing, not continued experimentation.
Jonesís incredible run of results made it possible to say: ďIn Eddie we trust.Ē At the moment that is open to doubt.

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