What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 10:04

I know it's happened all tournament, but what was the logic behind Itoje wearing 6, but packing down at lock, and Lawes wearing 5 and playing flanker?
Surely the only time that a forwards position really matters is at scrum time.

Could it just be a superstition thing?
I.e. they did it once and we won, so we carried on doing it

Or could it be that this way Eddie has a defence when someone says 'itoje isn't a flanker' or 'Lawes should play lock' etc

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: Stevothewasp (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 13:16

Purely for his power behind the props I believe - and lawes is no slouch with tackling either so allows no loss having itoje at 6 whilst having Joe and lawes too increasing the line out options and carrying power - worked well in the 6N where I think kruis will have to go some to get back in - as opposed to Hartley who I think has played his last game as 1st choice and captain - his performance as a hooker doesn't merit his inclusion as long as Eddie finds another captain he trusts I.e. Farrell

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 13:30

I still don't understand.
If Itoje is playing lock at scrum time, then why not wear the 5 shirt?
Similarly if Lawes is packing down at flanker, why not wear 6?

I know the shirt numbers don't mean a lot really, but then what's the logic of switching them around?

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: CB Wasp (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 14:02

Itoje was not at his best this tournament and was outshone by Launchers who showed his class at this level. Itoje tries really hard but does not carry well in to contact and yesterday was running around flapping his arms high most of the time. I think he had his most ineffective game yet but so did a few players. If Wasps can win something this year maybe Launchers will be captain next year.

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: Beckenham Bandit (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 17:58

Quote:
StevieWasp
I still don't understand.
If Itoje is playing lock at scrum time, then why not wear the 5 shirt?
Similarly if Lawes is packing down at flanker, why not wear 6?

I know the shirt numbers don't mean a lot really, but then what's the logic of switching them around?

Because Itoje was playing as a blind side flanker apart from at the scrum. Where he packed down in the second row. Lawes played as a second row outside of the scrum.

Second rows have a much freer role than blindsides out of the scrum not having to make as many tackles or hit as many rucks. Itoje is an exceptional 5 because his athleticism allows him to make use of that freedom. In a way most second rows can't. His x factor is really limited when he is constrained by the 6 shirt. He has tried hard as a 6 but he hasn't looked comfortable there for the whole Six Nations for me. England need Robshaw back in the 6 shirt asap.

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 18:40

I suppose that kinda makes sense.
Defensive pattern and structures are often based on position rather than personnel.

I think the bit that seemed weird to me was that if Jones was going to ignore the usual shirt numbers/positions at scrum time where it's most obvious, then why bother changing the shirts at all.
It would all have made as much sense in the normal shirts.



Thinking back however, i remember that the No4 shirt used to fit me better than the No5 at my old club. Maybe Lawes preferred the fit of the 5.

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: Beckenham Bandit (IP Logged)
Date: 19 March, 2017 19:12

Quote:
StevieWasp
I suppose that kinda makes sense.
Defensive pattern and structures are often based on position rather than personnel.

I think the bit that seemed weird to me was that if Jones was going to ignore the usual shirt numbers/positions at scrum time where it's most obvious, then why bother changing the shirts at all.
It would all have made as much sense in the normal shirts.



Thinking back however, i remember that the No4 shirt used to fit me better than the No5 at my old club. Maybe Lawes preferred the fit of the 5.

Second row don't have to chase the ball for phase after phase as much as flankers do. Therefore they usually handle the ball further away from the contact area and with more space. More athletic second rows like Itoje can then take advantage of their speed and ball handling. Hence Bill McClaren's galloping giraffes! Itoje real value is his athleticism for a second row. Wasted in the 6 shirt in my opinion. As I have said before I always though Tom Croft's best position was 5 for many of the same reasons.

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: Nigel Med (IP Logged)
Date: 20 March, 2017 14:21

Trying to get my head around us desperate for Robshaw to return. A few years ago this board was full of shouts for him to be no where near the England team, funny old world...

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: Ken I L Worth (IP Logged)
Date: 20 March, 2017 16:26

Sorry, going to be controversial, but I think that the lack of depth of good back row skills contributed to the downfall on Saturday, Robshaw would have made a hell of a difference.

Having five big slow lumps playing behind 3 smaller slower lumps is not the future. ABs must be chuckling their heads off at EJs approach....

Re: What's the deal with the 5 and 6 shirts?
Posted by: Beckenham Bandit (IP Logged)
Date: 20 March, 2017 16:40

Quote:
Nigel Med
Trying to get my head around us desperate for Robshaw to return. A few years ago this board was full of shouts for him to be no where near the England team, funny old world...

Even as an openside for his type Robshaw was always a very good player. A cr@p and plodding captain but always a very good player in my opinion with work rate that is off the charts.

The problem with Robshaw was people confused the player with the captain and believed the dross about "specialist opensides" in the media. Funny the media no longer bangs on about "specialist opensides" anymore now that England are winning. Funny that!

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