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Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Paul Smith 01 (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 10:16

Fingers crossed Dai gets somewhere with this...

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Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Andy1210 (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 11:07

I've mentioned Stephen Moore in some posts - i think he's just what we need and when i saw him in Sydney playing for the Brumbies has a real presence on the field.

Then maybe Kurtley would come back for a few months!!

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Rob Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 11:42

Just use the Academy options and build from the bottom up.



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Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 11:44

Looking is one thing. The Super League is now over, but the Japanese Top League rugby season, where many of the top players from Super league also play (as did WLR), is ongoing till late January. So I doubt any top flight players would be available. Players like Jaco Kriel, who is now out of contract in Super Rugby, but has to finish his last season with Kubota Spears.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 11:53

Quote:
Rob Smith
Just use the Academy options and build from the bottom up.

We have Eastgate and Umaga, and Dai obvously rates Eastgate at 10 over Umaga (who he has pushed out to 12 for now), but Eastgate is not ready. He needs another year or two.

In the flanker role, we only have James Seabrook sort of ready and not yet being used. He is on one of our 'University contracts' I think, in his first year at Warwick Uni, so I doubt that he would be ready for first team action.

What we face now, lack of depth, is the pigeons coming home to roost as we have failed to invest in the academy over successive years.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Rob Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 12:15

Quote:
NellyWellyWaspy
Quote:
Rob Smith
Just use the Academy options and build from the bottom up.

We have Eastgate and Umaga, and Dai obvously rates Eastgate at 10 over Umaga (who he has pushed out to 12 for now), but Eastgate is not ready. He needs another year or two.

In the flanker role, we only have James Seabrook sort of ready and not yet being used. He is on one of our 'University contracts' I think, in his first year at Warwick Uni, so I doubt that he would be ready for first team action.

What we face now, lack of depth, is the pigeons coming home to roost as we have failed to invest in the academy
over successive years.

Also at 10 Owain James, Will Porter. With Sam Jones, Gaskell and Thompson soon to return can't see a back row issue. Front row we have Lundberg, Stuart and West. When will they "be ready" - never if they are not played now and then - so what are they doing there ? Not suggesting we would suddenly start performing brilliantly but we as a squad would be strong - buying someone in for 3 months or so is a short term thinking.



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Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Hucks (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 14:03

I'll reserve judgement. All very well listing all the academy players we have but if none of them are a premiership ready hooker or flyhalf and Stephen Moore or Richie mo'unga were available then it's all relative.

I want to see our youngsters given a go - but not sure chucking an academy 10 in against Ulster or quins in the prem is going to help them or us. Anglo welsh - most certainly rely on those boys now and use this season as an opportunity to bring guys like Willis, lundberg, Garrett and James through for next year

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Lwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 14:04

Quote:
Rob Smith
When will they "be ready" - never if they are not played now and then - so what are they doing there ? Not suggesting we would suddenly start performing brilliantly but we as a squad would be strong - buying someone in for 3 months or so is a short term thinking.

This. We can't complain about how Sarries seem to have an endless production line of young academy prospects that can slot seamlessly in to their system and pass up opportunities like this to blood our own youth.

If it negatively impacts this season, but builds a much stronger base for future seasons we have to do it. 3 month mercenaries won't care if we win or lose. And after thay have gone you could be right back where you started, only now with demoralised squad members.

Daly, Wade, Launchbury all stepped up when the need arose, now look at them.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 14:08

Rob and Lwasp. I agree. Well reasoned. Chuck 'em in at the deep end so how they swim/float/sink. It can't be worse than how we have played these last 3 games anyway, and it saves money. Other teams do it (who was the Quins fly half for that game?).

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Rob Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 14:15

Quote:
Hucks
I'll reserve judgement. All very well listing all the academy players we have but if none of them are a premiership ready hooker or flyhalf and Stephen Moore or Richie mo'unga were available then it's all relative.
I want to see our youngsters given a go - but not sure chucking an academy 10 in against Ulster or quins in the prem is going to help them or us. Anglo welsh - most certainly rely on those boys now and use this season as an opportunity to bring guys like Willis, lundberg, Garrett and James through for next year

How do you get Premiership ready by not playing in the Prem - simply not possible - lower levels are a different game. Tom French was plucked out of nowhere in a final v Leic and International prop - we won. When relegation loomed young Academy players were brought in by necessity, most if not all stacked and grew. At present they seem to be in the Academy to tick a box - I don't care if it damages Dai's reputation and we lose a few games, the longer term with an Academy integrated alongside the Senior Squad is more important. It's not a new problem. I accept in order to promote the move some starlets were required to support the business model, but not now. Coach.



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Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Hucks (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 14:58

Rob - you're a highly respected rugby man so I don't like to argue. But the tom French comparison is a little bit of a stretch and feels like finding something to fit to your view that just doesn't stand up. Tom French stepped into one game as 1 man amongst 14 others who were knotted tightly together, all in the form 2-3 years of their lives, and led with absolute clarity of purpose and direction by a handful of the greatest players to have played the game. He was probably packing down that day next to ibanez, with shaw and Birkett behind him, dallaglio, reddan and king calling the shots and josh and Fraser directing the defence.

Key on field leadership positions filled by World Cup winners and wasps legends who knew each other's game inside out.

That's just not the same thing as asking a guy like owain James or eastgate to step in at 10 now in a team gutted by injury, lacking and shape or semblance of confidence. Worst case scenario you ended Matthew tait / Anthony allening them.


I'm all for bringing youth through in the prem - no argument. I'm enjoying seeing Willis and Garrett okay and hope lundberg will soon get his shot. But our A team is currently getting pumped when it turns out - throwing 10 of those lads into the main team ain't going to help them.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Rob Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 15:10

10, course not but don't need 10. We are short for a bit on one or two positions, ideal to introduce a few and a great boost for the whole set up. Wider issue is if they Squad get into a habit of thinking, we have a problem we'll buy our way out, we then have little hunger. That is not good.



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Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Twickwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 15:16

All three of those front row lads played England u20 at least a season ago. Others of this group have played in premiership, so why not give them a go. I would rather they were given a go than the utterly useless PDJ but that's another story.
Garrett has been on the bench in 2 matches we had lost or players weren't playing great and he never got on. That's really disappointing.

I really don't rate Stephen Moore, I think cruse and aj are playing well. Both are far more dynamic around the field, Tj Harris or oghre can cover the bench.
Not quite sure a 24 year old Langley should be in the academy.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Gaz (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 15:18

Don't think anyone is suggesting chucking 10 of them in ....

Rob also mentions the 'C' word - which is the very reason why the names you mention achieved what they did, and exactly why they are names. Coaching.

I say give them a chance.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 15:24

Quote:
Twickwasp
Not quite sure a 24 year old Langley should be in the academy.

I think that they put him there whilst they got him used to our style, and hopefully built his stamina and running speed. Those latter two were all he really needed. He had the top speed, but not for a game. I would love to see him on the field. He has all the makings of a top player, but he never went through an academy program. He just sort of arrived at Cambridge RFC.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Rob Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 15:38

Hucks accept Frenchy had experienced players around him but so will these lads that's the point. It will help them. Bit of background on Frenchy's selection. Ali Mac was lined up but had travel issues getting to Henley for final prep 1's v 2's training match/run. The boys were asked what they thought who should start, went for Frenchy as he was there and it was final prep - they knew his level and trusted him - huge boost.



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Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 16:39

I must admit I don't like having AJ and TC on the pitch at the start, it makes me wince thinking of what happens if one gets injured.

You also have to look at the potential impact of some mercenaries. How about Smith's impact on others, for example, or the Piataus? You could argue that playing them denied younger players the opportunity, but you could argue that playing them helped other developed players. If someone comes along with experience at the highest level, and is or has been top class, I would take them. If we are talking journeymen or just a bit better than what we have, then it might be better to develop our players and take the hit. Truth is nobody really can tell how a signing will turn out- look at Nathan Hughes.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: steve from cov (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 16:45

Whilst aceepting that we need to nurture our young talent the last 3 games have shown the need for'like for like' quality cover for our injured stars.

The team is really struggling right now and the young talent are not going to deliver winning results on the field which, in turn, will generate higher attendances.

It is crucial the team get a top four finish at the end of the season. Better still the club should aim for another top 2 finish to ensure the huge revenue that is a consequence of a 25k+ attendance at the Ricoh in May.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Twickwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 17:42

But it's all short term and you are just throwing money at the issue.
On flatmans podcast he was saying all about Ben darwins data guru stat thing he has created. Unsurprisingly successful teams are built around stability and knowing each other.
Take Willis, armitage, Mackern, Garrett and rowlands.
They are in our squad but no one seems to want them to play. They should play, it's a squad, that's the point with injuries.
It was great having smith and Beale, but I hated the fact they were only here for 1 season and made it all seem very short term.
Which indeed now seems it might have been.
I get it if gopperth goes down, but at the moment there are options.
Is it win at all costs or support a club, a team?

Re: Scouring the globe...
Posted by: Raggs (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 17:50

Garrett has been down as injured for ages, he was on the bench after being noted as injured.

Willis has been on the bench for virtually every game, and was given a solid 20 minutes for at least the last 2 I believe.

Macken started last game, and only came off due to injury.

Rowlands is another who's been involved in virtually every game, including starts.

Armitage is clearly the bottom of the rung as centre choice, and we don't need him on the wing either.

Who exactly doesn't want them to play? They are almost all playing.

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