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Who knows best?
Posted by: Old Geezer (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 10:36

There is always a lot of criticism of the people running Wasps. I am pretty convinced that the owners and Dai Young are so much better qualified to know and do what is best for Wasps than any of the amateurs who post criticism on here. I have total confidence in them.

Yes, shame about Danny Wilson if it turns out to be true but life is full of events like that. You just have to deal with them. The best people to make the decisions are the guys we have who make them, taking into account the inside knowledge they have that we don't.

Have faith with those who have got this club to where it is from where it was.

Have faith guys!!!!

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 12:12

I'm with ya.
sometimes things happen, but it happens to everyone at times.


Ultimately though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and an internet forum is about sharing those opinions.


I just wish that some positives were highlighted along with all the negatives that keep coming up that are dressed as "reality"

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Raggs (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 12:44

It's one of the reasons that I try and look for positive/sensible reasons behind some of the more apparently questionable decisions coaches make, there's a good chance they know better than me.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: bald.paul.101 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 14:16

dont think theres any debat TBH, clearly the posters on here know far, far more about rugby than qualified coaches with years of playing and coaching experience that do it for a living.....

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: EssexWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 15:20

Ok - I will bite! You lot are like those military types who follow behind the North Korean leader with the little notebooks, accepting and relaying every bit of@#$%&you are fed, laughing at all his jokes and really believing all is well with the world.
I dont know about coaching a rugby team but I know a lot about bonds, bond issues, covenants etc. as well as how the Sisu lot made their money. The reality is that there are issues off the pitch and, I suspect missing out on European progress and a Twickers final will have had an impact on the business plan.
That's reality - lets be honest and debate it rather than just become cheerleaders for everything the management and ownership do.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Raggs (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 15:26

? Can you point out the people stating that the financials are great and that we're better off not progressing in Europe for me?

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: AKWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 16:08

Quote:
EssexWasp
I suspect missing out on European progress and a Twickers final will have had an impact on the business plan.

Any board/financial team that calculates the budget based on getting to a final of a league where (on paper) there are 2 teams better than us, is a financial team that is deluded.

You have to trust the powers that be because it’s their job and they have all the information- we don’t have all the info and if we did know better than them, it’d be our job to run the club.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2018 16:08 by AKWasp.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 17:16

Whilst I don't have any criticism of Dai or Derek I do have criticism of the original post.
It's a fan forum firstly. Not a professionals running the club forum. There would be precisely two views on here if it were not, Dai's and Derek's.

Secondly, and this is so important if I was saying it I would be speaking slowly so that everyone can understand, it is perfectly possible to be a professional and make one or many mistakes. The evidence for this is twofold. Firstly many professionals, and indeed club owners admit errors themselves, especially when they are no longer involved. Secondly plenty of professionals running rugby disagree profoundly with each other. Witness Eddie Jones and the pundits. Or club owners. Or whoever he has fallen out with this week. Thirdly I am exceptionally well qualified in my field and yet my cock-up count continues to rise.

If you want to extend the line of logic further, only Mrs May runs the country, I think she knows better as a professional politician than an amateur. Or Mr Corbyn runs the Labour party he knows better than anyone who is not leader. You can go on with this line of thinking.
Eventually I guess we would hit an example where the penny drops with everyone and I won't even have to mention the 2005 Lions. You can be very well qualified and make a total hash of something. It is possible that such a hash is being made now by someone very well qualified and more professional than the amateurs here. If we allow all opinions and don't hide behind the "x knows better than you" argument the fan forum will be a nicer place. As I said I don't have any great criticism of Dai or Derek, but I am happy to debate with those who do without playing the "professional" card.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: ricohchezwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 17:38

Well I certainly don’t ..... with the available information they may know better than most, but even with that will still make mistakes..... this forum usually knows better after the event!!



Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Raggs (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 17:58

The question isn't if May is best at running the country. It's if you are better than her at it right now with your likely far more limited knowledge of all the facts that she had available to her.

People criticise some of the signings and releases, but very few of us if any truly know what is going behind the scenes in training etc. Maybe with that knowledge we could make better decisions than dai but without it i struggle to understand those that are so certain that huge errors are constantly being made.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 21:37

For me, it's the criticising without praising.
I find it hard to believe that everything the club has since in the last 3 years had been terrible.
Yet some posters would seemingly never praise the club even if we won the league and the champions cup.
I'm sure someone would pop up and say that we didn't play enough younger players through the season and have therefore screwed ourselves for the future.
It's those kind of comments that annoy me most

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Shugs (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2018 22:46

I find myself in the comfortable position of thinking the club is being run innovatively, sensibly and fundamentally in the right direction. So, whilst no-one really knows better than anyone else I trust those in the privileged position of running the club to do the right things. So, whilst I understand balance sheets, bonds and financial statements I'm relaxed about leaving those to someone else while I watch some fantastic rugby being delivered in Wasps shirts by some of the world's best players.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 03:48

+1 Shugs

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 07:28

All opinions on here come with the caveat that there might be some inside knowledge that makes them wrong or invalidates them. That should not stop opinions being given.

It may even be that inside knowledge not available to those here may even make the criticisms more valid and those being more positive more wrong. That is the problem with unknowables.

So if we get back to opinions, if someone has an overly negative view of the progress of the club, there is probably enough evidence publicly available to refute it without resorting to an argument such as those outlined above, which would actually give a carte blanche to anyone regardless of competence.
In other words if I think Mrs May is doing a good job I can discuss her visible policies to say so without saying "she has all the facts, no one else does".

So if someone is overly critical of Derek or Dai or Wasps, say so and say why with what is out there. There is plenty to defend them.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Gaz (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 11:10

Westwaleswasp hits the nail on the head for me.

I really cannot stand the Dai or Eddie knows best argument that's constantly thrown in the faces of contrary opinion.

Sure, they are experienced, better qualified, closer to the situation, have more information available yet they still get things wrong.

Also, some people on here have played, coached, refereed, watched the game for years and years and sometimes they may have a valid point. Just because it is different doesn't mean it's wrong.

If everyone in authoritative positions could go unchallenged then there will never be any accountability. I'm that situation, what would qualify anyone on the wasps or RFU board to hire or fire DoRs?

Besides, rugby ain't rocket science folks.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Bzzzz (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 12:38

Why hasn't Old gGezer berated the use of politics in this thread....?

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: DuncanS (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 13:33

I have no problem with people having differing opinions. What grates is not only the consistent negativity from the usual suspects, but also their absolute certainty in the infallibility of their argument. For example, instead of “There may have been a fallout behind the scenes” we get “Dai has clearly lost the dressing room”. Or, more infamously, instead of “If things continue in this vein we may struggle to make the playoffs” we get “Season over”. In October, for God’s sake. Disagree, by all means. Just don’t be a tool.

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: bald.paul.101 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 13:57

Quote:
DuncanS
Disagree, by all means. Just don’t be a tool.

Love that (Sm128)

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: ricohchezwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 14:18

Some people carry a full bag of them 😄



Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

Re: Who knows best?
Posted by: Westy68 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2018 16:13

Quote:
Gaz
Westwaleswasp hits the nail on the head for me.
I really cannot stand the Dai or Eddie knows best argument that's constantly thrown in the faces of contrary opinion.

Sure, they are experienced, better qualified, closer to the situation, have more information available yet they still get things wrong.

Also, some people on here have played, coached, refereed, watched the game for years and years and sometimes they may have a valid point. Just because it is different doesn't mean it's wrong.

If everyone in authoritative positions could go unchallenged then there will never be any accountability. I'm that situation, what would qualify anyone on the wasps or RFU board to hire or fire DoRs?

Besides, rugby ain't rocket science folks.

I agree with this.

Also as long as it isn’t personal, I don’t have to agree with it.

Or are you saying that because someone like EJ has more experience then me, he must be right to put brown on the wing. Surely not everyone is going to agree with that

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