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England Training squad
Posted by: DrHankPym(superhero) (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 08:45

England training squad
Forwards: (20) Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Michael Rhodes (Saracens), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs: (16) Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Nathan Earle (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Teo (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
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I know he doesn't play for us any more, but how can Jones not pick Cips?



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Geoff P (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:05

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Dgwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:07

As seemingly absurd as it is, why does this not seem at all surprising... The bloke has taken a massive career choice swing to stay in England and at the first opportunity has it thrown back...

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Green Wasp (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:09

Scratching my head over Sam Simmonds omission too.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:09

I feel so bad for Cips. Eddie Jones is so inconsistent and it is so grating and annoying. He said he will judge players on the field, but has picked Ashton and Te'o. I don't even have an issue with picking those players, but don't say you will be looking at what they have done on the field.

Also he was so dismissive in his interview afterwards by calling Cips the "third or fourth" choice fly half and he has to work on things. His arrogance will be his downfall. You would thinking after being so poor last year, he would have a bit of humility.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:11

Insane.

Jones says: "He knows what he has to work on."

That old chestnut.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Geoff P (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:13

'Jones said Cipriani is currently England's "third or fourth choice" fly-half.'

I wonder how many players in the premiership would agree with him?

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: DrHankPym(superhero) (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:20

Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I feel so bad for Cips. Eddie Jones is so inconsistent and it is so grating and annoying. He said he will judge players on the field, but has picked Ashton and Te'o. I don't even have an issue with picking those players, but don't say you will be looking at what they have done on the field.
Also he was so dismissive in his interview afterwards by calling Cips the "third or fourth" choice fly half and he has to work on things. His arrogance will be his downfall. You would thinking after being so poor last year, he would have a bit of humility.

This is in keeping with his weird scrum half policy. He only picks two because training session would leave one person hanging around doing nothing (or something like that).

I really don't buy the argument that Cips and Farrell can't work together. Failing that not having him on the bench is bizarre.

Also he's still relying on Mike Brown as fullback, who while good isn't as good as he was at full back. His solution seems to be try Watson or Daly there, rather than give Woodward a go. If this is the last chance for experimenting, why not look at other players?



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Gaz (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:22

The bloke is a moron. Cips has been head and shoulders the best English fly half for years, he played in the worst conditions in South Africa and showed more in a few minutes than Farrell or Ford combined have shown in years.

A hint of promise that we may see a late improvement to our backline in the lead up to the world cup has evaporated.

Added to that, he is only now, 1 year out, beginning to sort a balanced coaching team, and he has no idea what is best team is.

I'm beginning to hope that we get trounced in the AIs and that is not how I want to think.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: mike909 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:26

Seems madness

Ford has started the season really well, but if he is #1, I think we have to hope there are no injuries as the alternatives at FH are rather bare. Its not like Ford has set the team alight in terms of results.

Third or fourth choice? Odd for the last starting FH to win a game since February?

I don't like EJ, I am biased I am told on another forum, but England have been going backwards imo (or least not progressing) for 18 months or so, and there are still too many areas of doubt in terms of how to play and who to play.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:27

Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I feel so bad for Cips. Eddie Jones is so inconsistent and it is so grating and annoying. He said he will judge players on the field, but has picked Ashton and Te'o. I don't even have an issue with picking those players, but don't say you will be looking at what they have done on the field.
Also he was so dismissive in his interview afterwards by calling Cips the "third or fourth" choice fly half and he has to work on things. His arrogance will be his downfall. You would thinking after being so poor last year, he would have a bit of humility.

This is in keeping with his weird scrum half policy. He only picks two because training session would leave one person hanging around doing nothing (or something like that).

I really don't buy the argument that Cips and Farrell can't work together. Failing that not having him on the bench is bizarre.

Also he's still relying on Mike Brown as fullback, who while good isn't as good as he was at full back. His solution seems to be try Watson or Daly there, rather than give Woodward a go. If this is the last chance for experimenting, why not look at other players?



I agree with you about Faz and Cips working together, it worked against SA in the third test for example. My biggest issue with Jones is how inconsistent he is. I actually feel for most of the players who get picked, he picks and drops players without any sane explanation, just like he picks players with no sane rationale.

He said he did not pick Cips because of "form" and yet Te'o and Ashton who have not played a game are picked on form, Kruis is picked on form and he has not even played a full game as he only came back from injury last week, Schonert is injured as is Shields who has only played one or two games so what form is he talking about. He is better off telling us that he picks whoever he wants to pick, rather than acting like we are all stupid and talking about form when you don't pick a player who has been Man of the match in 3 of the 4 games he has played this season.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: DrHankPym(superhero) (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:28

Quote:
Gaz
I'm beginning to hope that we get trounced in the AIs and that is not how I want to think.

Assuming the Japan game is a gimme, we could in theory lose the other three. Though that relies on Australia reversing their current slump.

South Africa and All Blacks could be very painful, so glad I somehow managed to get tickets for the latter game *gulp!*



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: DrHankPym(superhero) (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:33

Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
He said he did not pick Cips because of "form" and yet Te'o and Ashton who have not played a game are picked on form, Kruis is picked on form and he has not even played a full game as he only came back from injury last week, Schonert is injured as is Shields who has only played one or two games so what form is he talking about. He is better off telling us that he picks whoever he wants to pick, rather than acting like we are all stupid and talking about form when you don't pick a player who has been Man of the match in 3 of the 4 games he has played this season.

I'd have more faith in him if he actually did that, rather than the trolling he's currently doing.



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:38

So the two fly halfs in the squad are Ford and Farrell? I assume Loz isn't considered a fly half and, while an excellent player, surely can't be considered a better fly half than Cips. So Eddie plans to run through the entire training session with Ford and Farrell not playing together, despite that being the go-to strategy for the last few years. Shouldn't Farrell be training at 12 with Ford at 10? Is Farrell no longer being considered at 12?

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:43

I just saw online that he still sees Manu as a 12, so if that is the case then it will be Farrell and Ford at 10, Manu and Te'o at 12 and Slade/Loz at 13, which is where Loz has played all of this season and will play most of his rugby for us this year.

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Gaz (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:44

Guardian lead with the arrest. Slightly overplay it by saying England's incumbent fly-half has been dropped.

I do feel that Eddie and the press have employed double standards here, he is not the only one in the squad with 'history'.

It seems that Cips has to do twice what any other player has to do just to get a fair shout. Feel for the bloke, but on the basis of the following quote from Eddie, I'd tell EJ where to go if I was Cips;

If a guy gets in trouble all the time youve got to have second thoughts about it. We will make a decision on whether hes going to add value to the team.

[www.theguardian.com]

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: wombles222 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:48

I am slightly mystified at the non selection of Cips, but this selection probably shows that his England carer is pretty much over, unless Jones is replaced (highly unlikely) then his non selection for the A.Is less than a year out from the World Cup pretty much closes the door. I will addenda it with this however, and that is Jones is allowed to select anyone he wants, whether we agree with him or not, it is his privilege. Cips would of known that staying in the country was no guarantee to selection, and as much as I would of selected him, I will respect Jones decision and cheer on all those wearing the red rose. I feel for Cips and wonder if he will now complete his contract at Glos, or look to bigger pay opportunities abroad. but my thoughts now turn towards seeing an evolution in our play this November!

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 09:53

I just watched bits of the press conference and he said it was due to form and nothing else as to why he did not pick Danny.

He also said that Danny was third or fourth choice and he wanted his top 2 fly halves in Owen and Ford to have loads of training time there during the camp.

This is why I have the issue with Eddie, if Cips was not picked on form, then why should other players who are also not on form get picked. He is better off saying that he sees Danny as third choice and while he has started the season well, it is not good enough to usurp the other two, rather than this rubbish he keeps on regurgitating about form.

Like many of his squad's, there is no balance to it, he has 1 out and out 7 in Curry and 4 no 6's in Shields, Robshaw, Rhodes and Wilson for example

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: bald.paul.101 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 10:01

Given its only a Training camp, it may not matter that much.



except that Jones has said he needs his key players to spend as much time together as possible......so Cips is not a key player? Is he seriously suggesting Time in camp working with the other backs wouldn't be beneficial to him?

He should just say that his style doesn't suit because that clearly is the issue. It got nothing to do with form!!

Re: England Training squad
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 September, 2018 10:06

I agree with you Bald Paul. I would respect Eddie Jones more if he was just honest about the whole thing. He is the Head Coach and does not have to pick Cips if he does not want to, but don't try and make us all seem stupid by suggesting it was a form decision.

He should have just said my two first choice fly halves are Owen and George, they have both played very well and i only wanted 2 fly halves, Danny has played really well but he is unlucky this time.

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