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Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 15:38

A fairly quick flick through and doesn’t seem all doom and gloom. The major difference cited for the increased loss is:

- One less knockout game (an impact of £1.2m in revenues I think it said)
- Rebalancing of the itrregularities noted earlier in the year
- increased investment in the playing squad and coaching staff

It’s interesting the impact home play-offs have. That Connacht game a few seasons ago really was costly for us in more ways than one.

Revenues growing in the Hotel and Casino businesses and they continue to attract increased sponsorship.

The naming rights to the stadium are still up for grabs aren’t they? Now that the CCFC/SISU stuff is sorted that should make a significant improvement in revenues and gross profits.

They can’t really spend more on the playing squad (other than perhaps a marquee signing) so if other revenues continue to grow (like shows, concerts, sponsorship, hotels, casino etc...) then we’re in good stead - play offs or no play offs.

I’m not overly concerned about our current reliance on Derek at the moment; just as Sarries needn’t have been about Nigel Wray over the years.

Both seem passionate about the clubs and their successes with a view to long term growth.

Neither seem like the playboy hobbiests you see in the Football world. Of course there is a risk he might choose to pull the plug, but that risk wouldn’t seem high.

Between the stadium (currently valued at £60m and the PRL shares valued at £9.7m there’s reasonable assets to borrow against to pay back Derek if/where neccessary).

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: jamestaylor002 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 15:39

Quote:
kentwasp1
It means Wasps have a business model that is not currently working and the club is in financial trouble. Not terminal but held together by one individual who has lent the club over a quarter of his personal fortune. The rugby business model is based on success and in particular getting into play-off stages - a reason the club quotes as the revenue fall off in these accounts. The bonds (£35 million more borrowing) have lost value and bondholders had to do the club a favour ignoring the breach of covenant with the financial irregularities. Or they would have called them in and if no new bond could be issued the dear old Ricoh would have to be flogged off, and Derek loses his shirt.
All very precarious and bit like the Casino, it's a huge gamble by the club taking on the empire that is the Ricoh. If they can't get it to work, plan C territory.

Thank you for the explanation kentwasp! [:wor kid:]

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 15:42

Quote:
neils
I think the latter is most likely. Their strategy to distress will be seen to be working in their eyes. Sensible thing to do now is get rid of SISU from the "building". If CCFC come back with a new owner then talk but until then get rid.

Whilst time consuming and presumably hefty legal fees involved. I can’t see how SISU are distressing us.

They’re preventing the naming rights being sold, or at least from us exteacting maximum from selling them but all other areas are growing. It’s not held back investment in the staff, squad or training base plans...

If anything, SISU continue to harm themselves and CCFC by pursuing a spurious Legal Route rather than working with the Wasps/Ricoh to solidify CCFC’s future.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: alcovwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 16:13

Love looking at the SBT forum when there is any Wasps news. They are absolutely convinced that Wasps will go bust, leave and CCFC will get the stadium! There is one guy on there with half a brain that talks sense and logic but the rest are hilarious!

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: steve from cov (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 16:24

Owen Slot has very recently reported that Premiership Rugby will soon announce a partnership investment that will provide a big cash windfall for Wasps and others.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Geoff P (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 16:31

I don't think this makes great reading for Dai. This is a results business in the sense that success helps the bottom line. In a commercial environment Dai would have gone by now as the 'company' is currently becoming less successful under his management, and the 'management team' as a whole is widely viewed as not fit for purpose.

Obviously, sports teams should not necessarily be viewed in the same way as a business, but if someone is losing a substantial part of their personal fortune year-on-year, there has to be a temptation to make a change in a way that regularly happens in football.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Westy68 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 17:25

Also Dai is the highest paid DOR, I think it will be difficult to keep a job in a results business if you are not doing the business

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 17:34

Quote:
Westy68
Also Dai is the highest paid DOR, I think it will be difficult to keep a job in a results business if you are not doing the business

I've heard that before Westy.... do we know that it's definitely true?
are their salaries published anywhere?

I think that when I heard it, it was from a podcast - possibly Andy Goode

Would he definitely know what all DoR's are paid, even the one with the club he's associated with?

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: samlee99 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 18:10

Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
samlee99
Quote:
Westy68
If this continues I wonder where Wasps will move to next.
Not good figures at all, very worrying

I hear Wycombe is very nice.

How about Northampton?

Might be worth a go for a couple of years before you up sticks and move the franchise again.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Heathen (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 18:10

Inbetweenwasp :

Now that the CCFC/SISU stuff is sorted that should make a significant improvement in revenues and gross profits.


Is it??

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: coddy (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 18:40

Quote:
Geoff P
I don't think this makes great reading for Dai. This is a results business in the sense that success helps the bottom line. In a commercial environment Dai would have gone by now as the 'company' is currently becoming less successful under his management, and the 'management team' as a whole is widely viewed as not fit for purpose.
Obviously, sports teams should not necessarily be viewed in the same way as a business, but if someone is losing a substantial part of their personal fortune year-on-year, there has to be a temptation to make a change in a way that regularly happens in football.


That's the first post I've seen from you that is not about the England team.... I think judging by that rubbish you should stick to topics in regards to International Rugby.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Dgwasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 19:09

Quote:
alcovwasp
Love looking at the SBT forum when there is any Wasps news. They are absolutely convinced that Wasps will go bust, leave and CCFC will get the stadium! There is one guy on there with half a brain that talks sense and logic but the rest are hilarious!

Unfortunately there are those in life who only see the path to success through others failure, and that is encompassed by a large majority of their forum. Bottom dweller is a fairly accurate description for that mentality.

On one hand you've got some fairly stark looking figures which point out that we are reliant on Derek to continue.

On the other hand we have a decent squad, spend up to the cap and seem comfortable spending on the coaching team. At least Derek is putting money into something that has the capability to be profitable in future, at Adams park that was never going to be the case.

A couple of things this says to me is that we need to tighten our belts somewhat which may well impact on the playing side and force the club to ensure that development of the academy and training facilities are followed through. In the short-term this might not be what we want to hear but long term I think we need to hang in as we have the infrastructure to deliver long term success.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 19:51

Quote:
jamestaylor002
Quote:
kentwasp1
It means Wasps have a business model that is not currently working and the club is in financial trouble. Not terminal but held together by one individual who has lent the club over a quarter of his personal fortune. The rugby business model is based on success and in particular getting into play-off stages - a reason the club quotes as the revenue fall off in these accounts. The bonds (£35 million more borrowing) have lost value and bondholders had to do the club a favour ignoring the breach of covenant with the financial irregularities. Or they would have called them in and if no new bond could be issued the dear old Ricoh would have to be flogged off, and Derek loses his shirt.
All very precarious and bit like the Casino, it's a huge gamble by the club taking on the empire that is the Ricoh. If they can't get it to work, plan C territory.

Thank you for the explanation kentwasp! [:wor kid:]

Havent you in summary described every premiership club. They are all a doner away from folding.

Nothing to see here.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Geoff P (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 19:54

Quote:
coddy
That's the first post I've seen from you that is not about the England team.... I think judging by that rubbish you should stick to topics in regards to International Rugby.

Haha well I've been posting on here about Wasps (and England) for pretty much the whole of this current century. Perhaps you missed them.
My latest offering may well have a paucity of style or coherence but l''d suggest it's hardly an unheard-of concept that managers get sacked from time to time when they underperform. Your response seems curiously over-reactive to be honest.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 20:15

I think Geoff has a semi-reasonable point. However, two questions:

- Is Dai underperforming vs the expectations of the Board? Home semi / knockouts seem to be the order of the day. It looks unlikely we’ll get either this season at this stage. But who knows.

- Who would do a better job that we’d either get for the same money, or perhaps break the bank for?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2018 20:17 by InbetweenWasp.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Shugs (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 20:25

Had a read through these and whilst it looks alarming the underlying signs appear OK. Revenue is stable with non playing elements growing. There is a huge asset and the ultimate shareholder is content. There also appears to be an ultimate parent company which I'd like to understand. Basically, Exeter aside, you could exchange any Premiership clubs name on most of this and it would be common other than the differentiator we have which is the earning potential of the Arena. I'd wager we're in better shape than most.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: StevieWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 20:35

I think what concerns most people is that during the move, we heard that we were going to be the richest club in Europe, and be the envy of the rugby world.

When you compare that to what we're seeing now, there is cause for concern.



However, if you compare these accounts to ours from before the move, then you probably see that we're in a far healthier position, even if all the numbers (good and bad) are far larger



Ultimately, it depends what you're using as a comparison

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Shugs (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 20:45

Quote:
StevieWasp
I think what concerns most people is that during the move, we heard that we were going to be the richest club in Europe, and be the envy of the rugby world.
When you compare that to what we're seeing now, there is cause for concern.



However, if you compare these accounts to ours from before the move, then you probably see that we're in a far healthier position, even if all the numbers (good and bad) are far larger




Ultimately, it depends what you're using as a comparison
Accounts are fine but it often pays to look at the underlying messages to understand how a business and those that are running it are doing. I'd point to the progress of the hotel plans, the commencement of the training ground plans, increased investment in the playing squad and ongoing developments in the stadium such as the new screen that all persuade me things are OK. None of those things would be happening if there was an issue.

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 20:46

Quote:
StevieWasp
I think what concerns most people is that during the move, we heard that we were going to be the richest club in Europe, and be the envy of the rugby world.

Sort of. The biggest turnover / revenue club, which we are as far as I’m aware

Re: 2018 Accounts
Posted by: Shugs (IP Logged)
Date: 12 November, 2018 20:56

Quote:
InbetweenWasp
Quote:
StevieWasp
I think what concerns most people is that during the move, we heard that we were going to be the richest club in Europe, and be the envy of the rugby world.

Sort of. The biggest turnover / revenue club, which we are as far as I’m aware
Agreed. And importantly the non rugby playing elements give us the potential to become sustainable.

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