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Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Finno (IP Logged)
Date: 01 October, 2017 08:34

I watched it last night after returning from holiday, and was expecting a horror show after reviewing the comments here!

But we actually competed really well for all but that 10 mins of madness in the first half when we shipped those three tries. I think, being able to look at it objectively after the fact, has led me to believe there is nothing terminal wrong and actually a lot of it looks really good, and was an improvement on both the Sale and Chiefs games that I attended. What needs fixing is in the head(i.e. application and concentration) not a skills or quality issue.

I'm looking forward to seeing us give Tigers a bloody good run for their money next Sat!

...and No, I'm not part of the 'green eyed, happy clappy, Irish can do no wrong' brigade!, as people who know my posts can attest to. I just honestly believe we can turn this around and survive.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Ajax Treesdown (IP Logged)
Date: 01 October, 2017 17:22

Quote:
Finno
I watched it last night after returning from holiday, and was expecting a horror show after reviewing the comments here!
But we actually competed really well for all but that 10 mins of madness in the first half when we shipped those three tries. I think, being able to look at it objectively after the fact, has led me to believe there is nothing terminal wrong and actually a lot of it looks really good, and was an improvement on both the Sale and Chiefs games that I attended. What needs fixing is in the head(i.e. application and concentration) not a skills or quality issue.

I'm looking forward to seeing us give Tigers a bloody good run for their money next Sat!

...and No, I'm not part of the 'green eyed, happy clappy, Irish can do no wrong' brigade!, as people who know my posts can attest to. I just honestly believe we can turn this around and survive.

The same Tigers who just beat the reigning premiership champions - who also stuffed us a few weeks ago?

Righto.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Horticbm (IP Logged)
Date: 01 October, 2017 17:40

I was at the Geese match yesterday, 23-23 with 15 mins to go..great to see the team playing with ball in hand against the Juddians consistant box kicking which cost them the game.The JUddians had the lion share of the ball and scored most of their points from penalties, but the Geese running game and ball handling was decisive and shut down the Juddians running game..well done and a great match to watch on a wet day

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Florida (IP Logged)
Date: 01 October, 2017 18:20

Quote:
Ajax Treesdown

The same Tigers who just beat the reigning premiership champions - who also stuffed us a few weeks ago?

Righto.

The same reigning champs who lost to Glaws who in turn lost to Quins who lost to us. Anything is possible in this league right now, admittedly us getting another win next week will be a long shot.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: old school (IP Logged)
Date: 01 October, 2017 18:34

#honk

All Three adult amateur sides won this weekend!!!

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 09:19

I'm in agreement with Finno. Whilst there are areas that clearly need addressing we did some good things on Friday night and we need to be very careful about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Our two major issues that I can see are that when other teams have their dominant spell in games (as every team does) we struggle to limit them points wise, and counter to that, when we have our dominant spell, we are not clinical enough.

For twenty minutes on Friday night we dominated possession and territory and sored 3 points, Falcons then got on top and scored 21 in about 5 minutes. We then got back on top and just before half time coughed up decent ball near their try line again.

That was very similar to the Sale game, where at 17-0 down we are banging away at their line, and with a bit of composure get the game to 17-7, instead we cough it up and Solomona goes the length of the field to make it 24-0.

Small margins in terms of actual errors but they can make huge differences to the scoreline.

Some basics do need working on, but as Finno said above, some of it looks to be a mental thing, as we completely lost our heads for that 10 minutes where Falcons won the game. Sort that out and we will be a lot closer to a lot of teams, we are not as bad a side as some of our results might suggest.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: jimbo800 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 09:28

I agree with the thoughts that we're competitive and can hold out own in this league. What's driving me and probably others....INSANE, is how easy we make it for other teams to score. Newcastle was atrocious defending, three players going for one player who still managed to offload to someone. We have sorely missed our defensive rocks in fergus and coman. They controlled everything in the backs and forwards.
I still feel this is down to lack of decent coaching. They can all tackle, the set up and plan is what's non existent. Danaher ran through brick walls as a player but that doesn't make him a good coach. When the cameras went to the coaches box during the game, there was no cohesion or chat to attempt to solve this or send a message across. Skivington is a natural leader and winner, it showed when we went to pot and he refused to talk to BT, his focus was purely on the team. He has a winning mentality, something that the club culture is missing.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 09:41

I can't agree that the set up and plan is non existent jimbo. You can see the intent, it's the same as it was in the Championship, to target the ball and try to disrupt. the only problem is that it is not working as it did in the Championship where opponents skill levels were lower and they couldn't get the ball away with us targeting it.

This year, teams are able to offload still and once we then miss the tackle we are struggling to recover, whereas last year if we missed our superior fitness/pace etc meant we could scramble and still get back in.

The system needs tweaking for sure, and I am in agreement that he coaches need to now show what they have and really earn their corn in this regard.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: fatlad76 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 09:54

Ozzy's point is exactly my main gripe.
We look like we are always tackling to rip even when one on one.
Yes it worked well last year but this the oppo are better at holding on and the action of the tackle is easier to bounce off so we end up missing the tackle and then the next.
The role of the first player in the contact should be to stop the advance the second is to rip.
Easy to fix isnt it?

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: jimbo800 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 09:58

Surely that shows the probem. We had one way of defending in the championship, which wasn't changed to suit the prem. there isn't one way to defend in this league, defence coach should be watching game tapes in preparation. The first chance socino got, he ran straight the middle. We've shipped Try bonus points pretty much every game, thus doesn't need tweaking it needs completely overhauling. Our attack can't make up for the lack of defence. Too much to do in reply causing pressure and mistakes.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 10:11

The plan may need overhauling Jimbo, or it may need something somewhere between tweaking and overhauling, that's for the coaches to decide. My point really was that your assertion that there was no plan or set up was not true, as there clearly is, it's just not working very well, I am sure we all agree on that.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: GHA (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 10:42

So our plan was 'do what we did in the Championship against weaker sides and hope it works?'

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Rosscaberry (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 10:56

Yes we are struggling & it is worrying but we are on a steep learning curve. I think the premiership is more competitive than ever. It seems anybody can beat anybody. It is essential that, as supporters, we give the team our full vociferous support. Confidence enables players to perform & a lack of confidence creates negativity. Our coaches are under enormous pressure to produce a winning team. Now is not the time to debate wether they are good enough. No I am not a one eyed green supporter. Our realistic aim this season is to finish 11th. At the moment we are meeting our target.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Bazzo (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 11:12

We are way more competitive than we were two years ago. We have better strength in depth. It will be tested and we might do down, who knows. I am also not a one eyed green supporter, but neither am I a doom and gloom merchant that is the majority on here. The coaches deserved a shot at the premiership, they did a great job last year under the guidance of BV, what they need is support. Do people honestly believe that we thought the plan was to play as we did in the Championship? That the coaches did not know it was a massive step up in class? Can't believe what I read on here at times.

Within our means financially we have brought in some good players, never good enough but how do we know what our limits are? The signing of big Joe today was a great statement of intent and brilliant news.

Our tackling (bar the Quins game) has been rubbish and cost us dearly but we have a long way to go yet. The Warriors games will be crucial and high pressure. Personally, I am fairly new to the club but would honestly not mind if we went down. I enjoyed last year and first past the post would make it more relaxing. Bristol should have lost yesterday to Ealing but they will come up with the bottomless pit of money to spend. We might be better off down there next year.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: fatlad76 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 11:38

I am certainly not doom and gloom and we are definitely in a better place than we were two years ago.
I have faith in the coaches to learn and last year in the lesser pressure environment was a great place to start but this is up a level and they hopefully will adjust unlike Mr Coventry.
On the field if we adjust the tackling to address the player more. Dont attack from so deep I can then not see a difference from us and eveyone else. So ever hopeful.
I beleive our new recruits are potentially much better than the past but realisitically we have ony seen two of them so far. Ever hopeful and we need to stay up to build on last year. Being a ping pong club would not generate the required improvement but was benficial for us last year only and not continuously.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: jimbo800 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 11:38

I don't for a second believe that the coaches thought championship ideas could get them by. They know what challenges they have. When watching the falcons game, there were scores where we weren't overrun at al but still conceded, we almost made the overlaps for them by making poor choices in who to target.

I believe the negativity here is actually a positive thing. We're getting annoyed and venting because we know we belong here and can manage, little by little. Unlike Welsh who were out of their depth day one. There are areas that a concern at the moment and it's not because of the change in quality of opponents, it's just poor decisions that are having a knock on affect for the rest of the games. We'll have a solid game at some point where we click from kick off and make teams work. We just need it soon before warriors get a win otherwise it's pressure back on us. Can we also stop kicking so deep on restarts, no pressure exerted, waste of a chase

I love rugby, I also hate it. Why do we do this to ourselves.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: tatthecraic2 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 14:29

Maybe I am a doomsayer but considering I play a very!! low level of rugby and see better decision being made by project managers and mechanics on a rugby pitch than my beloved London Irish is infuriating. (Appreciate the difference in level but it's all relative if youre playing to your ability)

It's the compounding of errors. And I find it hard to understand that players who have come from winning environments I.e. Nalaga - Clermont. Du Plessis - saracens marshall - fringes of All blacks, Bell from Leicester and we're still having big issues with decision making.

How are we suddenly forgetting to press in defense? How are we making stupid offloads, how are we being lethargic in the kick chase (when there is a good kick)

Individually on paper we look like a very capable team. But we're found lacking every week.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Shawshank (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 17:27

Maybe Ozzy the Oracle can tell us mere mortals why we have seemingly abandoned our main attacking weapon from last year, that scored more tries than anyone - the rolling maul from line out 5m out...?

In all 5 games this season we have oppo on toast from said line out, are steaming quite nicely towards the try line, and then the 9 plays the ball to the backs. Usually disastrously...(Sm164)

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Margin_Walker (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 18:23

Quote:
Shawshank
Maybe Ozzy the Oracle can tell us mere mortals why we have seemingly abandoned our main attacking weapon from last year, that scored more tries than anyone - the rolling maul from line out 5m out...?
In all 5 games this season we have oppo on toast from said line out, are steaming quite nicely towards the try line, and then the 9 plays the ball to the backs. Usually disastrously...(Sm164)

Not sure what games you've been watching, but It's been noticeably harder this year (understandably) to get a proper shunt on. Can't think of any times we've been steaming towards the line when the 9 has cleared the ball.

Re: Just like two years ago
Posted by: Nick4219 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 18:46

Quote:
Shawshank
Maybe Ozzy the Oracle can tell us mere mortals why we have seemingly abandoned our main attacking weapon from last year, that scored more tries than anyone - the rolling maul from line out 5m out...?
In all 5 games this season we have oppo on toast from said line out, are steaming quite nicely towards the try line, and then the 9 plays the ball to the backs. Usually disastrously...(Sm164)

I disagree that our rolling maul has been as effective as you seem to think. The ball has been sent out to the backs because the drive has been halted and the referees have called "use it".

We also don't have George Robson any more who was highly influential in this tactic in the Championship.

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