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Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: blucherquin (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2018 19:15

After spending the last five years never once knowingly passing the ball - heís no 5 in the Premiership stats for offloads this year.

At least someone is working on their game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/05/2018 19:16 by blucherquin.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Rocker (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2018 23:03

(Sm6)

He always did pass, it was a myth that he didn't. He is still quality, but he's lost a bit of speed. I think he needs some more of the aggression back, he always played better angry.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Jammy Git (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 00:00

Offloads aren't really passes winking smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Scaramouche (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 09:57

Do you come here often? That's a pass.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: GP2110 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 10:25

the criticism of brown was that he would take contact and never pass despite having players outside him. offload stats are irrelevant to that criticism IMO - all it suggests is that, when Brown is tackled (after going into contact), he has managed to get the ball away by offloading it.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: thomh (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 10:36

Quote:
Rocker
(Sm6)
He always did pass, it was a myth that he didn't. He is still quality, but he's lost a bit of speed. I think he needs some more of the aggression back, he always played better angry.

It's absolutely not a myth. Whatever you think of Brown as a player, and I personally think that between 2013-2015 he was one of the world's top 2 or 3 full backs, it's without question that he has a tendency to keep ball in hand rather than to distribute, which at times limits the attack of the teams he plays for. He has been renowned for always beating the first man in part because he almost always tries to beat the first man, rather than looking to involve support.

I think when this chat last came up I used the Daly try against Wales as an example. If Brown rather than Ford had collected the loose ball, we wouldn't have scored the try. It's not that he can't pass - just that when he gets the ball his instinct is to plot his way round the onrushing defender, with passing as a secondary option. Ford and Farrell on the other hand immediately looked to spread it wide and it ended with Daly going over in the corner.

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: blucherquin (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 11:52

He actively seeks out contact with the ball - drives me mad.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: CPB62 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 12:04

But could it also be seen he has elected to pass on the responsibility !!!

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2018 13:27

Quote:
CPB62
But could it also be seen he has elected to pass on the responsibility !!!

I think there's something in that. He will certainly take the contact rather than pass to someone else to take the contact.



BB

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Scaramouche (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 08:33

The thing is, if your team mates (and the oppo) know what you are going to do ie bosh it up the middle then the oppo are watching you all the time and maybe committing one extra to the tackle to stop you, all of which should give you a man spare somewhere...Plus, Mikey very rarely loses the ball and always sets it back beautifully for the scrummy. What Mikey does is not the end of a move, it is the beginning of the next one.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Kent Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 08:41

Not sure he always sets the ball back. We didnít come to many home games last season but for the previous 2 or 3 years Mike was starting to get turned over more and losing the ball when tackled. Also he was unable to cut the lines he did say 5 or 6 years ago when he was in his prime but not picked for England.
Itís a great shame he wasnít picked when he was such a good full back.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 09:54

Mike Brown was a great full back and in the past, maybe between 2012-2016, I would say he was better than anyone in rugby at full back at international level not named Ben Smith, Israel Dagg or Israel Folau, he was no where near those guys but he was probably better than everyone else but even then at his peak, he was terrible at getting the ball out and passing and offloads does not change that stat, he kills and dies with the ball way too often and his tendency to die with the ball rather than distribute was way too obvious in many games, that is just who he is

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: blucherquin (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 10:08

Quote:
Kent Fan
Not sure he always sets the ball back. We didnít come to many home games last season but for the previous 2 or 3 years Mike was starting to get turned over more and losing the ball when tackled. Also he was unable to cut the lines he did say 5 or 6 years ago when he was in his prime but not picked for England.
Itís a great shame he wasnít picked when he was such a good full back.

Youíre spot on - but he sorted that out in past 18 months

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Jammy Git (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 17:36

He was easily as good as Folau during that season when he was awesome in the AIs and player of the six Nations.

The head to head battle was a total no contest, too.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

Re: Browny - canÔŅĹt stop passing
Posted by: thomh (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 17:52

Yeh it's easy to be blinded by Folau's athleticism, but Brown was clearly more effective than him that season.

I don't buy the idea that Brown was already past his best by then, if only he'd been picked earlier etc. at all though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2018 17:58 by thomh.

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 17:46

I totally disagree Jammy, there is not a single international coach that would take Brown over Folau at any point in their career.

Also there is no single team, including the all blacks that Folau will not get into ever since he started playing rugby and there are many Brown will not get into.

Brown was a very good full back, played loads of games and deserves to be acknowledged as one of the best full backs at least of recent times, Folau has extreme athletic ability that you can never coach and I know you guys love Brown on here and fair enough but I will repeat, there is not a single international coach who would have ever picked him over Folau, head to head does not mean anything in rugby at all, take Folau and Hooper out of that Aussie team and that team is completely garbage, the same cannot be said for Brown

Re: Browny - canÔŅĹt stop passing
Posted by: thomh (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 18:10

Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I totally disagree Jammy, there is not a single international coach that would take Brown over Folau at any point in their career.

You're either deliberately being a bit chippy about this for some reason, or you've genuinely forgotten how good Brown was in 13/14. Either way, the statement I've pulled out there is just plain wrong.

Here's McGeechan on him, from March 2014

[www.telegraph.co.uk]


"Want to know how good he is at the moment? Well, for a man who was not on the Lions tour to Australia last summer ... he would now be an automatic choice in the Test side.

...

Brown is as good as there is at 15. And by that I mean in world terms, too. He compares favourably with anyone: the two Israels, the New Zealander Dagg and the Australian Folau, and Ireland’s Rob Kearney, who has been in exceptional form."

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 18:43

I disagree, he was good in 13/14 and this is not me even being difficult and Dagg I can see, even Piatau who is more talented, most of his prime has been outside NZ so we never saw it with the all blacks but Folau, who in 2013 was in his first year of union and Ben Smith for me are the only back 3 players in the last 5 years who will walk into any test side, either at wing or full back, no other player can say the same, as good as Brown was that year, he still did not get chosen for the lions tour, a team Folau would have walked into. Brown was very good and he's the most capped England player and a really good player but he is not Ben Smith or Folau in my opinion, a guy who averages a try every other game

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 18:45

Also if you look at it objectively and the only aspect of rugby that he is better than Folau at is kicking most likely, not in attack, not passing, not offloads, not scoring tries, defensively I might give Brown an edge but Folau is not bad defensively and that is why last year he was nominated for world player of the year even in a terrible Aussie team, if he played for the all blacks, he would shatter most records in rugby and he still might based on how many tries he scores

Re: Browny - canít stop passing
Posted by: BuckQuin (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2018 19:58

Does anyone else not think that Folau is a bit of a glorified winger? Bit overrated imo. He only plays full back because Oz don't have a wealth of options currently.

He has the athleticism, granted - but doesn't have the rugby brain that Brown or various other top class full backs have. Definitely not the all-rounder that Brown is/was. I'm sorry, but tries per game is not how I rate my full backs. Comparing their respective peak attacking abilities is subject to way too many variables. So Folau gets over the chalk a lot - meaning he's in the right place a lot. What else does he do better than other FBs that you specifically want your FB to do?

Brown at his peak over Folau at his peak any day of the week given that we're talking specifically about the #15 shirt. Sorry, but Brown's one of the best all-round FULL BACKS I've ever seen.

Naturally, this is all totally subjective. I do think pundits are way too quick to build bandwagons when a player is athletically freakish. Granted, Folau has a particular anatomical makeup that makes him a very good international rugby player, but rugby is such a mental and instinctive game too. It's too easy to get carried away with players like Folau but I just don't buy it. Physically he's got it all but that doesn't mean he knows how to use it. I won't be surprised to see him shifted back out to the wing when Oz have a better option at 15.

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