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Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 01:03

It seems that Day and the players union are getting upset with the powers that be about the proposed long season. They should actually be more questioning of the attitude of the Premiership clubs. They would be the ones who would ask the players to extend their season. And they haven't set a good example with their Lions tourists. Whereas Jon Davies was interviewed after the Scarlets Saturday game against the SA Lions saying that it was going to be his first day back in training on the following Monday, here at Saints Lawes had already played a warm up and a Saracens game whilst North then played 2 games last week. None of JD2, Owens, Warburton, Alun Wyn, Biggar and Webb have played even half a game, I believe its also true of the Irish contingent. Halfpenny did have a part game but that was more, being a new signing, to satisfy the home crowd as he didn't travel to Italy for the next game.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Aylesbury Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 05:41

Now now Eif, you know that the Pro14 have a much easier time of resting their players than the Premiership. Before they had 4 easy teams in their league, but in their grab for money they have managed to add 2 further whipping boys, so now only half their games are even remotely competitive. You cannot blame the Premiership clubs for wanting the players they pay lots of money to play in as many games as possible.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: St.Sinner (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 06:45

Oh dear.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Box kick it (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 06:52

Question for Eif.

Why do you follow the Saints? What are your links to the club?

I'm just wondering coz I don't think you have ever had a good word to say about them or English rugby in generl. Why not be happy and follow one of your Welsh teams.

Nothing meant by this post, I was just wandering.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 06:52

It's those nasty English again isn't it Eif ?
They really are a ghastly lot.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 07:07

I like to think of Eif as a bitter angry old Welshman who hates everything modern, everything English and everything saints.

I too wonder why he doesn't leave us in peace and go and support one of the joke team in Wales.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Box kick it (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 07:35

Or a very good fisherman.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Former Hollywood Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 07:57

When will we learn that we should copy the all conquering Welsh teams and not do our own thing. We live in hope that one day the clubs see sense and follow Mr Jones sage advice.

*


FHS

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 08:00

North had a shortened tour due to injury and Lawes made it very public he didn't want to be rested for the autumn internationals and therefore needed to be back playing for the saints reasonably early.

Historically the Pro 14 clubs don't play their stars early season anyway as there focus is the start of the European competition. they normally start playing a couple of weeks before that so nothing really new.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Mobbs (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 08:09

I did some research on the net about the origin of the name 'Eif'.......

'ancient Celtic name for a small troll like figure that lives in dark corners or under bridges. Enjoys fishing in shallow water using cleverly constructed bait which is attractive to large green and black fish which have a smattering of gold on their backs. Extremely nationalistic but liable to be found a long way from its homeland. Occasionally able to form quite sensible ideas but too often spouts forth rose-tinted views of days gone by which show total bias to its roots in South Wales. Not considered dangerous per se.' (Sm128)

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: headman (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 08:10

A great article in the Guardian last Saturday about the demands for an extended season and how the RPA and all their members view it. i get the distinct impression that all the players are totally against what Premier Rugby are proposing. As for Eif, if there was relegation in the Pro 14, would the Irish and Welsh Teams be resting their "star" players?

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 08:11

Always reminds me of Spike Milligan who hated his own house.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: skybluesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 09:32

Quote:
Thrupp artist
Always reminds me of Spike Milligan who hated his own house.

except that he was very, very funny....

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: OldPete (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 11:17

its funny isnt it by missing the point Eiff manages to get almost everyone else to miss it as well as yet another nationalist peeing high contest breaks out.

Forget the pro 14 - the issue as raised by our own Christian Day is the potential overplaying of premier league players in England.

My own view - a crude response by PRL to the ever increasing demands of the international circus.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 11:36

Perhaps the view could be that the clubs have invested heavily in their assets (the players)
Clubs and supporters want their best players to take the field as much as possible.
Winning games, winning competitions etc. putting bums on seats. Making money to pay for high class players.
See earlier threads over saints' profitability.

The question should be, why continue with Lions / International tours in the summer = what does have priority.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the players owe far more allegiance to their clubs.

As a matter of interest Eif what is support like for the clubs in Wales, increasing / decreasing ?

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 12:50

Well first up, we could stop sides filling the AW games with internationals. By all means give game time to a few players comming back from injury but every year you get one or two teams taking it more seriously than the others and they usually get to the final. Obviously selling tickets to these games is hard enough so i cant see it happening.

The other option is have a match limit per season for all players. makes internationals less attractive. Unlikely.

Perhaps an actual break when the internationals are on to rest other players? problem there is the season is already long. when do the internationals get a day off?

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: MarchingIn (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 14:12

Quote:
Duckonstilts
The other option is have a match limit per season for all players. makes internationals less attractive. Unlikely.

Well... that's assuming you count international games within it.

You could just slap a playing time limit at club level on all players for all Prem/AW/Euro/A league games that has enough slack to accommodate them playing internationals on top.

I don't think it would be a bad thing. Truth be told, some of the top players ARE overplayed already and incorporating an element of rotation in works - if it didn't, Sarries wouldn't be back to back champions of Europe. It's not just international players - somebody like Waller has looked like he's been played into the ground at times, and I believe he would be stronger and sharper playing for Sarries who would rotate him more.

I'd be happy to see a limit, force rotation on the clubs so they have to use all of their squads - it's probably better for players, I think the England Squad would be stronger for it & you take the contention about the length of the season away.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: St tub (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 14:52

Its just about money in the premiership - why dress it up as anything else?
The crux of the deal was the 5 mandatory weeks off - which if you think what they are (albeit being well paid) doing to themselves physically - is very much needed

In simple terms - whoever pays decides..

Each club then gets a bit over 4m a year each from TV / sponsorship
The RFU pay each club 2m a year
In return - each has a big academy, occasionally has to field a strange side (Sale) to meet EQP criteria and does a load of stuff in the community
Then there are gates, sponsorship deals and sugar daddies..

So - the AIs are going nowhere but neither is resting players or the Fri fixtures / moving games to funny times to suit BT vs the average fans work/life balance wishes

Overlay that onto the players.. (all in the public domain)

England players now (new deal) get 22k a game (all in) - 170k a player plus win bonuses on top..
You are also (by default) getting well paid by your club (vs your peers) as they are hardly going to "not" pay you whilst you are away and expect you to stick around

Where is the incentive for Courts (who's just had a golden summer with the lions) to go "take himself out of the England limelight"??
As long as he meets the 5 weeks mandatory rest (like George) then its the same for him as everyone else who rocked back up training in August - only he's scrapping with Maro, Kruis, JoeL and the guys who beat Argentina for a shirt

Eif - as I'm sure you know, the Welsh have a very different pay structure.. about 5k a game for Wales with a huge win bonus structure, with the needs of the clubs coming a distinct #2nd place

The WRU (interestingly) pay each of the franchises on average MORE than the RFU pay (due largely to the fact on top of the basic cash - some players are on dual contracts where the WRU stump up 60% of their salary) - only that's not shared equally - so the Ospreys and Scarlets (with the most welsh players) get more of the dosh..
They then each get a chunk of TV cash via the WRU (about half the amount the prem clubs get per side)..

So - the WRU essentially "own" the best playing assets, control the tv cash (and so which games "matter") and personally pay the wages of most of the main players.. which is why they only play when Wales lets them..

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: HRsaints fan (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 14:53

Eif - Christian Day's comments were about the clubs because his grip was with Premiership Rugby and their complete failure to talk with the players about the proposed extension of the season. As I understand it Premiership Rugby is operated by representatives of the clubs (there are currently 15 officers who run PR including John White who represents Saints).

In this instance the "powers that be" are the clubs, as it is their representatives who are pushing for this extended season, regardless of the views of the players who, after all, will be the ones, and the only ones, affected.

His comments have been supported by other senior players, and unless Premiership Rugby starts talking to them, this could force them into action that none of us want to see.

Re: Day and Proposed Long Season
Posted by: St Saltaire (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2017 15:24

Mobbs - good research. It amused me anyway!

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