One swallow..
Posted by: St tub (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 08:02

Having castigated my mother for years for being an avid reader, I do admit to hypocrisy but..

England should look to homegrown coaching talent.. like Jim

Given the many "Anyone but Jim" advocates on the board (who do seem quieter now we are top after 5 games (and at least 4 of those would be deemed "tough")

I'm personally glad we didn't take on debt to:
(i) terminate Jim's contract (and other coaches)
(ii) take on even more debt to outbid the amounts paid to much touted coaches elsewhere

Time may tell, but we may be (finally) seeing the impact of (behind the scenes) enforcement of salary caps after "get off scott free gate" 2 years ago.. certain sides not fulfilling fixtures already - no international call up excuses, just the superstars and a token academy model won't work

Change is good - new ideas are good - but IMHO a coach needs to be able to pick a squad to their plan, even if you were handed a side of "galacticos", if they can't / won't play to your ideas then you won't succeed..

Wolf may be right, Glos may need a clear out, bring in a bunch more Saffers - and maybe Ackermann will mirror the outstanding results he achieved in SA (with a bottom up squad he grew)

But... IMHO
hats off to Dean Richards - who has done with Newcastle what he did with Quins
Rob Baxter - who signs guys who maybe don't have the "world class" moniker, but who deliver
and Jim.. wherever we end up this season - it's been "one hell of a ride" to Twickers, to Cardiff and my personal favorites home vs Tiggs with 13 men and away to Sarries with their "guard of honor"

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 09:30

I believe Jim is more manager than coach.

He has successfully identified Dickens as a proper coach and our attack has blossomed. He was very shrewd bringing back Dowson to provide some leadership and cohesion amongst the players.


We were successful playing solid set piece rugby, his under investment in that area was a poor decision and led directly to 2 sub-standard seasons. Recruitment hasn't been analytical enough IMHO, we have first team standard experienced players playing weekly for the Wanderers, for example. With limited resources this isn't efficient IMHO.


However we have changed our style of play under Dickens and, as I dare say I predicted, top 4 is on. More importantly we have changed our mentality, we look hungry which I hoped we would with Horne and Dowson bringing a bit of attitude. I didn't agree he should have been sacked, mainly because we can't afford it. I did argue that 5 year contracts are ridiculous when Saracens and Exeter are offering 3 when winning trophies.


With regards Sir Clive's comments, with respect, he's out of touch IMHO. His punditry is full of platitudes and lacks really analysis.

In which other walks of life is employment of top management based upon nationality? I don't suspect FTSE100 companies insist on a British CEO. 1 Prem in 11 years, 2 seasons outside the top 4 but a good start to this season after a handful of games ..... that wouldn't be a resume at the top of my list. Jim has plenty to prove here over the next 2 years first albeit encouraging signs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2017 09:44 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: Flook (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 09:32

Quote:
st tub
Having castigated my mother for years for being an avid reader, I do admit to hypocrisy but..

I must be missing something here, but what has your Mother being an avid reader got to do with who succeeds Eddie Jones?

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: tedge (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 09:51

Jim Mallinder's contract should be up round about the same time as Jones' so we'll see. Agreed that JM is no longer the hands on coach he once was. I am guessing the hands on approach ended round about the time we won the league or during the following season - in any event it was probably a gradual process - either premeditated or just by default, I suspect it might have revolved around the recruitment of King who probably insisted on a head coach type role and who came with a reputation that meant JM felt relaxed about moving back a bit. For whatever reason it didn't work out so well with King in the longer term and perhaps by then JM had taken his eye and his hands off the ball. There were probably additional reasons why we stuttered after we headed the league the following season. Hopefully clarity of vision has returned. Of course I might well be talking a whole load of tripe !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2017 13:45 by tedge.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 10:02

Flook - you probably don't like me feel guilty perusing the Daily Hate

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: Flook (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 10:19

Quote:
Thrupp artist
Flook - you probably don't like me, feel guilty perusing the Daily Hate

Well the Daily Mail is a bit left wing for me, but I do read it to get a balanced view of things.winking smiley

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: BrianB (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 10:35

Jim did concede mid-way through last season that he was not hands-on coaching. I presume, because of the admission, he then became hands-on.

When I read the comments coming from the RFU, I wondered whether they will look for a coach with some kind of international experience as a must?

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: headman (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 10:56

We've still got Dorian West. Baxter and Richards have more astute forward coaches with good ideas. Not too sure about ours and his man-management

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: tedge (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 11:02

Quote:
headman
We've still got Dorian West. Baxter and Richards have more astute forward coaches with good ideas. Not too sure about ours and his man-management

And yet up to the point where we won the league most of us thought he was the best forwards coach since sliced bread

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: saintsfella (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 11:48

St tub- wholeheartedly agree with most of your sentiment!

HLTW- you also said Gloucester will be nailed on top 4 quite insistently.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 12:26

Saintsfella - lets see where they are at the end of the season. I did say at the time "i expect he will get some big saffer guys in who will change the whole team". He hasn't done that yet...


where do you think they will finish?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2017 12:28 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: saintsfella (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 12:41

7th or 8th. I see absolutely no improvement or change from Gloucester as of yet. Very flash in attack, very flakey generally. Of course it's very early days, just like I'm not getting carried away with Saints form!

But I doubted at the time Gloucester would be nailed on top 4 and can't see it now either. Happy to be proven wrong as would like to see a mix up at the top end of the table, but can't see it.

It's now all teed up for Gloucester to beat us on Saturday with a very dominant and consistent performance!...

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 13:42

I think the lesson so far is that no team (including Exe and Sarries) are "nailed on" top 4. The delight of this thread is that it encourages a review of the posts submitted on this board from the time JA was announced in April up to the start of the season (in fact to be pedantic following Round 1 when Glos beat Exe 28-21 and we were enjoying Twickenham).

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 13:51

Quote:
saintsfella
7th or 8th. I see absolutely no improvement or change from Gloucester as of yet. Very flash in attack, very flakey generally. Of course it's very early days, just like I'm not getting carried away with Saints form!
But I doubted at the time Gloucester would be nailed on top 4 and can't see it now either. Happy to be proven wrong as would like to see a mix up at the top end of the table, but can't see it.

It's now all teed up for Gloucester to beat us on Saturday with a very dominant and consistent performance!...


Quite. The Rugby Championship ends soon, if they get a couple of big lads after that then it's on... especially during international windows.

You know I am a little worried about the game this week. Prem results seem to be pretty home-side heavy this year. Ackermann would have absolutely smoked them after last week, he's a tough man. Never easy to win down there too, potential for Harry to get a bit rattled, we are shipping loose tries. I dunno, was just more confident about the other games.

I would rather see the game as a free hit. No real pressure, just go and give it a crack. As long as Fortress Franklins continues, I am relaxed.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 04 October, 2017 23:48

Well Flook, to-morrow's (Thu) papers will certainly help you decide on which of the balanced papers you should read, depending on how they treat the Maybot's disaster. Look after your voice is the motto, don't spend the conference giving countless interviews and speaking at too many fringes

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: JRM (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 04:52

Fear not Mr Jones, we shall all rally round for the mutual good, despite what the press says.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 07:33

Quote:
Thrupp artist
I think the lesson so far is that no team (including Exe and Sarries) are "nailed on" top 4. The delight of this thread is that it encourages a review of the posts submitted on this board from the time JA was announced in April up to the start of the season (in fact to be pedantic following Round 1 when Glos beat Exe 28-21 and we were enjoying Twickenham).


Yet you didn't give a prediction for Saints finishing position on the 'one word' thread. And neither did Saintsfella.

I would rather give a view which was wrong and create a talking point than give no view and criticise others that do.


I see Glaws are looking to sign Argentina hooker Montoya. Good start.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: oldtoastersaint (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 15:34

JRM :

"Fear not Mr Jones, we shall all rally round for the mutual good, despite what the press says."

Imprecisely so Jacob, no multi-millionaire could have been more ambiguous, certainly the use of your own wedding to protest at that disgraceful seven figure dividend you received, demonstrates clearly your passionate opposition to the unreasonable 'watering-down' of benefits to your fellow men.

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 18:35

Quote:
oldtoastersaint
JRM :
"Fear not Mr Jones, we shall all rally round for the mutual good, despite what the press says."

Imprecisely so Jacob, no multi-millionaire could have been more ambiguous, certainly the use of your own wedding to protest at that disgraceful seven figure dividend you received, demonstrates clearly your passionate opposition to the unreasonable 'watering-down' of benefits to your fellow men.

out of character for you to chat politics ?

Re: One swallow..
Posted by: oldtoastersaint (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 13:47

Precisely so!

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