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Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 07:58

Up to the AW fixtures we play Gloucester & Clermont away and Saracens & Wasps at home, none you can regard as being a easier fixture.
Harry has done very well standing in at 10 but the plan I am pretty sure was not for him to play there long term.
When do you make the change? Do you hope that that we can stick with the current starting team and hope they can keep the same intensity for the next 4 fixtures?
IMO if any change is to be made at 10 then it is Francis in if fit with Myler on the bench. Starting Myler would be a backward step. Francis may be a unknown quantity in the Premiership but at some point you have to roll the dice.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 08:13

First thing Myler did last week was take the ball up to the line.

We can't afford the kicking errors from Harry in the opening Euro games so either Myler or better Francis must be in the team by then although Harry could be at 15.

I expect Francis to start Saturday with Myler bench and Harry 15 or bench.
I think people are right that Courts might be rested. Especially if woody is fit. Interesting question about tight head.

Glaws will not revert to a tight game they don't have the players and the DOR hasn't coached it.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 08:13

I suspect that Jim is having all of these thoughts going through his head. Easy for us to speculate, but what ever Jim goes for he will have to live by. Whatever happens I suspect some will find fault with and if we happen to not win, there will be some that said he should have done this and that.
Good luck to Jim and lets hope for another exciting game.



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Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Mobbs (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 09:38

My gut feeling is to bring back Myler for game management and better goal kicking percentages. We will certainly need a regular outside half for the games to come. Harry does however bring something intangible to the party and his defensive lapses are not so badly exposed at ten than they would be at twelve or fifteen.
Gloucester will be hurting and eager to give a good showing at Csstle Grim in order to prevent a third consecutive Saints win on their turf. Saints do need some rotation with Saracens and Clermont just around the corner and if Wasps cannot fulfill a A league fixture then we might need to do it this weekend. We should be grateful that May has gone and that Charlie is injured.

Whilst I have expectations to the good for Francis, do we actually have that much evidence that he is 'awesome' Wolfie ?

We shall be there on saturday !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 10:14 by Mobbs.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Bob Stainsby (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 10:17

I too am in the ain't broke don't fix it camp Use Smyler from the bench hopefully as in last week or earlier if needed. Haven't seen Piers yet so can't comment but if Eddie J picks him as soon as available then he must rate what he has seen. And Eddie J has probablyforgotten more about building a team and spotting talent than the collective wisdom on here. COYS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 11:06 by Bob Stainsby.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 10:29

Francis has fast hands like Harry and can kick goals. So he can slot in to the existing pattern.

Harry made a fantastic 15's try saving intervention last week. Often at 15 you are a no chance last man - remember Fodes being put on his @#$%& by Goneva last season?

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 10:54

Quote:
fair_weather_fan
Francis has fast hands like Harry and can kick goals. So he can slot in to the existing pattern.
Harry made a fantastic 15's try saving intervention last week. Often at 15 you are a no chance last man - remember Fodes being put on his @#$%& by Goneva last season?

A very good point.

IMHO Harry doesn't have the technique or currently strength / centre of gravity to be a 12 channel defender, getting low and expecting that flat gain line ball to time the hit. But, as per your reference to his tackle on Yarde (I think) he could be fine at cover defence. I'm not sure I'd fancy Tuisova running at him head on, but neither would anyone...

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: St tub (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 12:10

We are top, after 18 months of constant "apprentice" mentality from both the media and supporters.. the risk of changing a winning side and going back to "Fire him.. and him.." would (IMHO) outweigh anything else

The only likely "drop" will be Patterson & Clare - as DW will want to bring back Wood, Hartley and Eadie
Courts to #4 alongside Ribbans - Api covering lock and backrow with TH on the bench

10 is trickier - I'd love to see Stephen play how he wants, not as instructed - but as a 100% team guy, he will (sadly) do his job - we do have the luxury we could have both Stephen (who started on the left wing) and Piers on the bench - tough on Stephenson though

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Saint Robert (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 12:17

Don't envy Jim this week - we have some excellent options at 9, 10, 12, 13 and if they dont start they cant all make the bench unless we go with less than 5 forward replacements, and that's not going to happen!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2017 12:19 by Saint Robert.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: saintsfella (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 12:44

Fair weather- whilst I remember the incident I object to Foden's defence at fullback being regarded as poor because of is! I remember him being generally excellent in defence, taking man and ball almost every time to stop quick fast offloading which kills teams once the line's been broken.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: tedge (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 12:51

Quote:
saintsfella
Fair weather- whilst I remember the incident I object to Foden's defence at fullback being regarded as poor because of is! I remember him being generally excellent in defence, taking man and ball almost every time to stop quick fast offloading which kills teams once the line's been broken.

Agreed - I haven't seen any depreciation in Foden's defensive abilities - he might have lost a bit of pace in attack though

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 12:57

I think you misunderstand me. I was saying how exposed FB can sometimes be. Had I said even Fodes got exposed sometimes.... etc.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 13:25

Quote:
St tub
We are top, after 18 months of constant "apprentice" mentality from both the media and supporters.. the risk of changing a winning side and going back to "Fire him.. and him.." would (IMHO) outweigh anything else
The only likely "drop" will be Patterson & Clare - as DW will want to bring back Wood, Hartley and Eadie
Courts to #4 alongside Ribbans - Api covering lock and backrow with TH on the bench

10 is trickier - I'd love to see Stephen play how he wants, not as instructed - but as a 100% team guy, he will (sadly) do his job - we do have the luxury we could have both Stephen (who started on the left wing) and Piers on the bench - tough on Stephenson though


Totally agree. Remember we had 2 years of dross and we've had a good start to this season. That is not a well-bed winning culture...

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 14:18

Has Stephen explained how he "wants" to play?

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Casual Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 14:30

It would be interesting to now how much freedom the players are given to play "their" way. SM has been labeled a conservative flyhalf who stands deep, does not commit defenders and hence restricts the centre's options. However how much is this a game plan and how much is it how he wants to play ? We don't know if he could or wants to play closer to the line.

Take the infamous inside pass move. Been used for years by SM, usually to the 12, with minimal success. Suddenly the same move, when used between HM and TC it is opening up defenses like a can opener. Lots of factors at play here - TC is certainly hitting the line at greater speed and has the foot work to beat the first defender. Is HM better at executing it - weight of pass, calling it at the right time ? I couldn't say.

As for the Glaws game, its one of those tough gnarly away games where Saints will be looking to dog out a point at least, 4 would be excellent.

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: St tub (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 14:57

Stephen learnt his trade in league.. there's nothing instinctive in that game re standing 10 yards off the gain line and kicking 85% of the ball you are given

His break last week was class, coinciding (maybe?) with the fact he has nothing to lose?, being 3rd choice and per the above - should be let go at the end of the season

What I'm struggling with is where Biggar is going to play with Piers nailed on at 10?
Unless Piers is up for a Mike Catt / Jimmy Gopperth 10/12 cameo - both Johnny and Danny C were (are) hugely supported by having such an option around them

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 05 October, 2017 18:56

As long as we match the intensity with which we played tigs and barf, we should have enough.

The games against Irish as Quins, whilst winning left a fair bit to be desired. On both occasions, we allowed the opposition to be in with a chance. This we need to sort out. Start well and end well is the key.

I'm not sure how the missed A league game will have effected the like of Wood and Francis so i can see them on the bench.

I think the Myler vs Harry choice is a tough one, but it's a nice one to have.

Gloucester have some electric backs so Mylers typical kicking game may not be what's needed, it may also be exactly what Gloucester are expecting with Mylers return to fitness.

So, for me, I'd rest Courtney in readiness for Europe or at least have him on the bench. If we can load up on our forwards sizing we should get some dominance at scrum time.

So id go with...

Ace
North
Horne
Burrell
Collins
Harry
Groom
Waller
Dylan
Brookes
Ali
Ribbans
Paterson
Gibson
Harrison

Assuming everyone is fit.

Bench would be

Haywood
Ma'afu
Ford Robinson
Lawes
Wood
Reinach
Francis
Foden

Whenever Dylan comes off, Courtney to come on as Captain. Harry to continue as he has done previously with Francis to come on and hopefully exploit some tiring legs with his Super Rugby experience.

No half measures... go for the jugular!

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: DesboroughSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 00:15

Quote:
Thrupp artist
Has Stephen explained how he "wants" to play?

Not sure but Id imagine it involves being with Tiny, Mooj & Manoa. Hes got the skill

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 10:10

Cobus has to start at some point. No demotion for Nic just a simple rest would be good when we have four usable effective scrummies

Re: Gloucester Gameplan
Posted by: Saintlyg (IP Logged)
Date: 07 October, 2017 08:22

Don't really care who is picked jus score mote points that the oppos. Easy plan (Sm14)

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