Current Page: 2 of 3
Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: TringSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 08:20

Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
If you don't suggest a Saints player is a world beater apparently you're slagging them off....?

What is wrong with being a solid pro anyway? I think it's commendable. Thousands of players would give their right arm to achieve that level.

No wolfy, you are completely incorrect - its not about being a world beater its about doing a damn good job for a considerable period of time. its about being part of a successful team and its about giving you all.

You are one of the most vocal on here about how our players and coaching staff are poor and sub-standard and you incessantly reel off lists of personnel who we should snap up at the blink of an eye. but what you constantly fail to comprehend is that by parachuting in superstars, the net result wont necessarily be success. yes, you get the big name, but not the team spirit.

Rugby is a tough attritional game and it is absolutely built on a 15 man performance, so to disregard the performance of one of those 15 cogs is incomprehensible, because without it, the team would not function. just as it wouldnt without a hooker, prop, centre or any other position.

Steve is one of a handful of real saintsmen, and whether you believe him to be world class or not, he has delivered consistently and at a very high standard for us for a long time - can you put hand on heart and say that you have delivered as well as he has to your employer?? Have you been part of a team that has out performed all others in your field of work? Are you in the top 3 ever in terms of performance in your chosen field of work?? [www.premiershiprugby.com]

As for the comment re a lay person critiquing a michelin star meal, the analogy is wrong, as what you are actually doing is criticising a 1 star michelin chef for not having 3 stars, even though the peak of your culinary skills is beans on toast!

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: Nath-coys (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 09:06

HLTW... Agree partly.

I would suggest he is making more yards as he runs more than any other FH, mostly with good affect.

But it is also widely thought and especially in NZ that he runs a lot as he doesn't see the game as quickly as a Dan Carter for example... So in that instance it is much easier too run with the ball. And he has the speed to do that which is great.

But a lot of people think the players outside him are not being brought in too the game as well as they could because of his passing and speed of thought.

And yeah his broken field running is exceptional, love watching him in full flight. But this is probably because he is a better FB again.
Just like Harry mallinder said when talking about positions you get more time to observe for space and gaps at FB than at FH.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 09:21

Interesting that this thread started with a link to Mr Myler's team mates praising him. It has continued with posters giving their opinions that in many instances contradict his team mates.

I am sure who ever is picked will give their best tomorrow.(Sm128)



http://chrishoddle.smugmug.com/photos/i-TsCHdzK/0/M/i-TsCHdzK-M.gif


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Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 09:23

Quote:
TringSaint
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
If you don't suggest a Saints player is a world beater apparently you're slagging them off....?

What is wrong with being a solid pro anyway? I think it's commendable. Thousands of players would give their right arm to achieve that level.

No wolfy, you are completely incorrect - its not about being a world beater its about doing a damn good job for a considerable period of time. its about being part of a successful team and its about giving you all.

You are one of the most vocal on here about how our players and coaching staff are poor and sub-standard and you incessantly reel off lists of personnel who we should snap up at the blink of an eye. but what you constantly fail to comprehend is that by parachuting in superstars, the net result wont necessarily be success. yes, you get the big name, but not the team spirit.

Rugby is a tough attritional game and it is absolutely built on a 15 man performance, so to disregard the performance of one of those 15 cogs is incomprehensible, because without it, the team would not function. just as it wouldnt without a hooker, prop, centre or any other position.

Steve is one of a handful of real saintsmen, and whether you believe him to be world class or not, he has delivered consistently and at a very high standard for us for a long time - can you put hand on heart and say that you have delivered as well as he has to your employer?? Have you been part of a team that has out performed all others in your field of work? Are you in the top 3 ever in terms of performance in your chosen field of work?? [www.premiershiprugby.com]

As for the comment re a lay person critiquing a michelin star meal, the analogy is wrong, as what you are actually doing is criticising a 1 star michelin chef for not having 3 stars, even though the peak of your culinary skills is beans on toast!


Stephen has been an excellent club man, reliable servant. And thoroughly deserves a testimonial to thank him. That's all fine.

The rest of your post is.... well.... lets address it.



When do I criticise players? Please find examples or retract that accusation and apologise. Do not lie for effect.

I predicted we would be 4th this year and you may like to read this thread that I posted "Reasons to be cheerful" after the Saracens game when everyone was lambasting the players and coaches


[url=http://[www.rugbynetwork.net]]Reasons to be cheerful[/url]


Just because I predicted last year we would win nothing, and criticised the performances for being sub-standard (which was objectively correct) does not mean I am not confident or bullish when I can see positive green shoots. I would rather say it as it is, honesty is good.


Just because I don't feel inclined to kiss a players ass doesn't equate to criticism. I may say Harry needs to step up D to play 12, Stephen should run at the line more. But never criticise or call players to be dropped. Equally never called for a coach to be sacked. We are allowed to take a view on the rugby you know, both positive or negative.



I do pick out players I think are interesting because I watch a lot of rugby that most don't get the chance to see. Accusing me of supporting parachuting in stars when I just posted I would have looked to save £500k signing a kiwi you've never heard of sounds counter-intuitive. enjoy Piers by the way.


Stephen is only a handful of real Saintsmen? These are bags of 'real Saintsmen' I've supported (not going back in history to other legends, only those I've seen live). I'd actually suggest everyone who pulls on the shirt is a real Saintsmen but anyway:-


Pat Lam
Andrew Blowers
Budge Pountney
Gary Pearce
Tim Rodber
Matt Dawson
Bruce Reihana
Steve Thompson
Gary Pagel (massive impact in shortish time)
Frank Packman
Harvey Thorneycroft
Ian Hunter
Paul Grayson
Nick Beale
Dylan Hartley
Courtney Lawes
Martin Bayfield
Matt Lord
Ben Cohen

there will be others but that's top of the head, Bateman didn't make it!


As for my own life that's none of your business. You shouldn't assume that posters on here are not over achievers in whatever they do in life, on whatever level or however they measure it themselves (for example, in my eyes being a good person is over-achievement vs not being a good person and making tons of cash albeit there are not mutually exclusive).

I don't mind you believing Stephen has been outstanding for us, I can disagree and give a view. I think he's been good. Not carp, not rubbish, good. Good is commendable. Neither is correct or 'incorrect' as you state - it is a view.


Your suggestion that no-one is allowed a view other than a super-bullish one is bordering Orwellian and I will be ignoring it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 09:45 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 09:24

Not entirely sure but from memory Myler played in the Heineken final at Cardiff. The real test in that game was in the second half when Saints were protecting a good lead with a pack beginning to struggle. One of the no 10s was outstanding the other wasn't.

Do some board members really believe that if the no 10s were swapped, Myler could have lead Leinster to victory, Sexton would have found some way for Saints to hang on more like. Big games sort out the outstanding from the journeymen and it certainly did that day.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 09:24

Quote:
Nath-coys
HLTW... Agree partly.
I would suggest he is making more yards as he runs more than any other FH, mostly with good affect.

But it is also widely thought and especially in NZ that he runs a lot as he doesn't see the game as quickly as a Dan Carter for example... So in that instance it is much easier too run with the ball. And he has the speed to do that which is great.

But a lot of people think the players outside him are not being brought in too the game as well as they could because of his passing and speed of thought.

And yeah his broken field running is exceptional, love watching him in full flight. But this is probably because he is a better FB again.
Just like Harry mallinder said when talking about positions you get more time to observe for space and gaps at FB than at FH.

Good points Nath.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: TringSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 10:07

Wolfy - given that one of us has been censured for their comments on here and the other not, may i suggest that your view as to me being super-bullish is a little one-eyed!!

we agree on some things and disagree on others - this point we disagree.

Whoever steps out onto the field wearing 10 - whether its Harry, Steve, Piers or Donald Duck, i will be willing them and the other 14 players on to a victory.

PS - still believe glaws are nailed on top 4?

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 10:17

My word...no one has slagged myler off. This is a forum and allows for discussion. People have different views. I think hungry has given a balanced view and justified his opinions. He shouldn't be slated as anti saints as a result.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 10:24

"Whoever steps out onto the field wearing 10 - whether its Harry, Steve, Piers or Donald Duck, i will be willing them and the other 14 players on to a victory."

As I hope every Saints supporter does!

"PS - still believe glaws are nailed on top 4?"

Looking ominous. Expected them to sign players, which they haven't yet. Assuming they do, Moriarty and Morgan come back, then can see a big run. Ackermann will get it right, give him time.


Of course hope they take a hiding tomorrow

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: Whiston Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 10:39

Quote:
Eif Jones
Not entirely sure but from memory Myler played in the Heineken final at Cardiff. The real test in that game was in the second half when Saints were protecting a good lead with a pack beginning to struggle. One of the no 10s was outstanding the other wasn't.
Do some board members really believe that if the no 10s were swapped, Myler could have lead Leinster to victory, Sexton would have found some way for Saints to hang on more like. Big games sort out the outstanding from the journeymen and it certainly did that day.

What an utterly ridiculous post.

The Saints forwards were totally out on their feet at half time in that game.

You should have been watching Rugby long enough to know that virtually no half backs are effective with their forwards going backwards. The game is about momentum and from the moment we lost the ball at the restart we were on the back foot. How can Myler be a 'journeyman' when he has only ever played Union for 1 club?

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: St tub (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 10:52

There is very very little difference between capped and not these days
Stephen has been capped and had he been Scottish or Welsh would have (IMHO) had more

He's not alone in that "club" of playing top level extremely well but not getting the international exposure to be on a list of "superstars"
Toby Flood - class act - very few caps as he was behind Wilkinson
Charlie Hodgson - ditto - probably the best "to the line" 10 England have had in recent years
Andy Goode - won everything in the game
Alex King..
and everyones favourite one eyed pundit Mr Barnes

Conversely one could argue Shane G was lucky to get his caps (scored that one beautiful try though)

Reading the above - is Stephen Dan Carter, Jonny Wilkinson or Jonny Sexton - nope
Is he as good as pretty much everyone else (in some facets better, in others not as strong but as a premiership 10) - 100% yes

oh and I'm peeved Chris (Day) isn't on Wolfy's Saintsman list - but that's a personal opinion

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: talesin (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 11:34

I might be wrong but who got man of the match at twickers and Cardiff when we won?
Smyler has rarely letus down when it has mattered.
International caps while a marker for great players don't really neccessarily mean a player is a great or not...if you are behind Jonny W or Farrell or Dylan or Dan Carter...you are not going to get many caps...Matfield had a few caps as I remember...will he be remembered for being a great saintsman?....
Well done Steve...The real fans know what you have done for us over the years!!...helped us get rid of Gerahty and a host of other really substandard 10's!

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 11:36

Quote:
St tub
There is very very little difference between capped and not these days
Stephen has been capped and had he been Scottish or Welsh would have (IMHO) had more

He's not alone in that "club" of playing top level extremely well but not getting the international exposure to be on a list of "superstars"
Toby Flood - class act - very few caps as he was behind Wilkinson
Charlie Hodgson - ditto - probably the best "to the line" 10 England have had in recent years
Andy Goode - won everything in the game
Alex King..
and everyones favourite one eyed pundit Mr Barnes

Conversely one could argue Shane G was lucky to get his caps (scored that one beautiful try though)

Reading the above - is Stephen Dan Carter, Jonny Wilkinson or Jonny Sexton - nope
Is he as good as pretty much everyone else (in some facets better, in others not as strong but as a premiership 10) - 100% yes

oh and I'm peeved Chris (Day) isn't on Wolfy's Saintsman list - but that's a personal opinion




Toby Flood got 60 caps and a whopping 3 year contract at Toulouse. Level above I'm afraid. Others agree with you about just sub international, still superb players. Think Hodgson a better player IMHO. Not sure he would have got in Wales team, probably Scots a few years ago.


You know when I finished the list I realised that I'd missed Christian (I did say would miss some!), then thought I'd see how long it would take you to bite - my bad :-).

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: St tub (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 14:22

Gotta look out for the wee fella Wolfy smiling smiley

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 15:51

Quote:
talesin
I might be wrong but who got man of the match at twickers and Cardiff when we won?
Smyler has rarely letus down when it has mattered.
International caps while a marker for great players don't really neccessarily mean a player is a great or not...if you are behind Jonny W or Farrell or Dylan or Dan Carter...you are not going to get many caps...Matfield had a few caps as I remember...will he be remembered for being a great saintsman?....
Well done Steve...The real fans know what you have done for us over the years!!...helped us get rid of Gerahty and a host of other really substandard 10's!


You are deliberately conflating 2 different descriptions to virtue signal your support. There are no real or fake fans, everyone who goes and cheers the team is a real fan. Enough of that.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: Saint Mulc (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 18:02

HLTW I'm surprised that Buck Shelford didn't make your list of Saints' legends.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 18:10

I don’t think it’s a ‘marmite ‘ call
Love him or hate him
But it is something of a curate’s egg
For so many seasons SM played behind a dominant pack with a limited gain plan to simply pass to a big 12 who made ground - Jimmy Downey et al.
But when playing outside of Saints - Saxons - he showed a different side ; playing on the line with great hands
He has also shown some great skills in passing at great speed on oppo’s 5 metre line to cut out defence and put our winger in for try
I like Myler he has been a great servant to saints and should get the accolades that are due. He has done exactly what the coaches have asked of him
Great guy great servant great saint
But he is not the future
Would love to see him as kicking coach and part of coaching team moving forward

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 18:27

Quote:
Eric Browett
As an outsider looking in I'd rate Myler as a player I respected but never feared when you played Saracens. Manoa I feared, Burrell has occasionally carved us up but I'd never look at SM as much of a threat; just a good, solid club pro who, if you were on top, would knock the nails in the coffin.

Says a lot for me. Supporter of one of our biggest rivals/ threats who says, "if you were on top, would knock the nails in the coffin". There are few better than Stephen Myler at doing just that. Top, top player who, given the chance would have done just that in an England shirt. He's understated and not flash, he's steady as a rock, totally reliable and rarely lets us down. I'll miss him a lot when he finally stops.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
Date: 06 October, 2017 19:29

Quote:
Saint Mulc
HLTW I'm surprised that Buck Shelford didn't make your list of Saints' legends.


He's my favourite ever sportsman let alone Saintsman however, because he left us before the cup final to go back to NZ, he misses the list.

Re: Unbelievable Myler
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 08 October, 2017 15:17

Whiston Saint
You should well know by now that Eif is mostly ridiculous. He seems a very bitter man/boy ...not sure why !!

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