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League Position
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 15:41

So, weíre now second from bottom and I have to say Iím not feeling confident for this year now. Compared to this stage last year we are far worse off. What are peopleís genuine thoughts? Same as me? We are just too light as a forward pack and will get bossed this season. Are there any rays of hope? Anyone?

Re: League Position
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 15:52

We'll be 11/12 as round 4 finishes. Bound to get panned for this with "way to early" etc, etc but IMO we're in trouble. Unlike a lot of the top 4/ top 6 stuff I've heard, I'll be happy to avoid the worst happening. Yes we're in transition, yes it's getting fixed but it's going to be slow. Problem we have is that at least 80-90% of the other Prem teams are better than us. "Green shoots" are brilliant but they're not helpful if most of the rest are better.

Re: League Position
Posted by: Abington Adam (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 15:52

Early days, we've had some tough games and I think it would be prudent to wait and see how we develop through to the new year. Everyone is learning, including Boyd, and I'm sure we'll get better but yesterday was concerning.

Re: League Position
Posted by: TringSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 15:54

No one has beaten us by more than 11 points yet, so we are not far off. Frustrating, yes, but not panicking at all.

Re: League Position
Posted by: Guildford Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 15:58

Itís too early for real concern. As they gel a bit more, and we have a few more back healthy, weíll get better. A new loose head (Alex has been driven into the ground) an 8 and a 13 and weíll be good.

Re: League Position
Posted by: ElySaint (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 16:02

I'm far from confident. Five points from four games is a very poor return, irrelevant of who we've played. One point off bottom. The table doesn't lie.

What concerns me is that over the off season we heard about a focus on skill sets. There was positive talk about the impact of Vesty, Dowse and the scrum coach. I see little improvement in terms of skills, game management, scrum. Perhaps we simply cannot upskill the players we have. Perhaps the coaches aren't up to it (were Wuss very skillful under Vesty's coaching?).

Can see us really struggling down at Bristol, and at HQ. I can see us losing both unless there is some drastic improvement.

Re: League Position
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 16:06

For me it seems everyone around us is picking up bonus points, but not us. I believe it was the same issue last year too. I just feel that we havenít moved on. The lineout, although poor yesterday is generally quite strong. However, the scrum is my biggest concern meaning we either give penalties away and then points, or we lose field position find ourselves under lots of pressure. Get the feeling Boyd now realised the size of the job he has to do. I do though think it will only become apparent to his success once he can bring in players that are truly his. Some of the current players are not good enough. Simple. As much of a shame as it is.

Re: League Position
Posted by: andysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 16:26

We need to beat Bristol next week. If we donít I think we probably wonít beat tigers and 1 win after 6 games would be a disaster.

Re: League Position
Posted by: Houghton Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 16:28

Bristol will be targeting Saints as a comfortable home fixture whilst Twickenham is a complete lottery.

It paraphrase Steve McQueen....'this is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you.....and then it can happen again....'

Re: League Position
Posted by: Angus67 (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 17:09

I hate to sound so negative already but, looking at the fixtures I just don't know where the next win is going to come from.

I am just hoping that at some point 'it' falls into place, but the collapse of the set piece yesterday set my optimism into retreat.

Lose against Bears and Tigs and that would leave us with 1 win out of 6.

But to try to put pragmatic slant on things.....
1 Glos Away - 11 point losing margin. First fixture of the season against a team tipped to do well this year. 0 points
2 Quins Home - 7 point win margin against a team that hammered Sale in week 1. 4 points.
3 Sarries Home - 11 point losing margin, other teams will suffer more than that, and it was a big improvement on last year but still 0 points.
4 Bath Away - 2 point losing margin, moments to consider include Burns's break away try, balanced with his missed efforts at the uprights, the same uprights that denied us a conversion and a more respectable draw which would have given 2 points. (despite awful set piece) But just I point.

It hasn't been the easiest start to the season, maybe the fixture list could have been kinder, but bumble along like this and it will be a horrible year.

The next two weeks will be really interesting and very important.

COYS!

Re: League Position
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 17:42

I like the optimistic slant here Angus, fine margins and all that. But at what point do we have to say that when these fine margins keep coming along with us on the losing side that actually, we just are not that good. I was really looking forward to this season after last year, but with Worcester having turned a corner it seems we have not progressed fast enough, but merely kept up with the bottom teams. I know time will tell and I hope Iím wrong but itís a massive worry!

Re: League Position
Posted by: Whiston Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 18:01

Quote:
Mobbs
Bristol will be targeting Saints as a comfortable home fixture whilst Twickenham is a complete lottery...'

There no easy games in the Premiership. I expect Bristol will be worried that they will be the ones on the end of the Saints backlash. Sarries have beaten other teams, including Glaws, far more easily than they beat us.

Re: League Position
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 18:14

Not too worried at the moment, most games we could and in some instances should have won. What is concerning Is the scrum. Lineouts won't be as bad as the bath game again. We need to sort it out to win games which are close. What gives me optimism is new coaching set up. I think Ferguson will get it right but may be some chopping and changing of personnel etc till it becomes better functioning

Re: League Position
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 18:19

Quins have 5 bonus points. They are also 2 win and 3 losses but have more than double what we have. Boyd was interviewed after the Bath defeat, it was on Facebook. I was struck by how negative he sounded, boy did he sound depressed.

Re: League Position
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 19:00

Boyd knows he has a poor quality squad and a big big job ahead. I also think he will improve us massively but over the course of the next 3 years or so.
I expect us to beat Bristol next week but sadly I think we will likely lose the next 2 league games after that.

Re: League Position
Posted by: Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 19:27

To put into context, after five games last year, we were top of the league!!!

No one very often mentions the All Blacks scrum, line out because we are dazzled by their expansive rugby, but no team ever has the upper hand in the set piece. Itís what creates the platform to play rugby, without that they would not be the force they are!!

Hope Boyd realises this, and starts add some power to our lightweight pack...

Re: League Position
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 20:31

Didnít take long. This season was always going to be tough and there was always going to be plenty of downs probably outweighing the ups. Weíve missed some points so far and our scrum is underpowered, all true. However, weíve been competitive in every game and even took Sarries close, look what they did to Glos today. One of the BT mob did actually make a good point today in that Sarries and Exeter are streets ahead of everyone else. The everyone else are all capable on the day of beating each other and I agree with that, there are no other stand outs. The anomaly this season is that Bristol are part of the everyone else too it seems, whereas previous seasons there has been a standout for the drop. Anyone of 4-5 sides could be relegated and I include us in that. This was never going to be a quick fix and will take time. A couple of wins sees us climb up the table significantly, itís far too early to panic in my view.

Last season we had 4 wins out of 5. After first week humiliation at Twickenham to Sarries, we had home wins against Bath, Leicester & Quins and an away win against relegation favourites LI. All of which we would have fancied winning, after that We then had a horrendous run of losses. Thatís not comparable to our start this season. 2 x tough away games and a home game v Sarries. The only easy game where you would hope we would be guaranteed a win is Quins at home which we did. A couple of bonus points aside have we really really done that badly result wise?

For me the only thing results and the table tells me after 4 rounds is that Exeter and Sarries are nailed on 1 & 2 and 3-12 are anyoneís. Still we love a bit of doom and gloom on here, another bad result and weíll be calling for Boydís head no doubt

Re: League Position
Posted by: Saint Jericho (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 21:12

Can't believe all this negativity already. As Tring said no one has beaten us by more than 11 yet. The wins are coming. We'll get better. This league is so tight, anyone can beat anyone else on their day. Look at the Gloucester result today, thrashed. And Tigers lost as well. Puts into perspective our close loses against Saracens and Bath. We'll easily be safe this year and then Boyd will sort out the pack personnel next summer.

Keep the faith

Re: League Position
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 21:14

Walks you say doom and gloom on here and I would say you are right to a point. There are many on here, myself included that feel that we should be doing better with the players we have. That is opinion itís true. But would anyone seriously suggest this is Boyds fault? I suspect not. You say this was never going to be a quick fix, again I agree with you. However, it is hard to deny that we have started this season worse than last if you purely look at results. If we canít turn this competitiveness into points including bonus ones we will get cut adrift. The season for us has really not started yet and I would expect a turn around and hope sharpish. So Walks, are you happy with how things are going? Just wondering on your opinion since it looks like you are from your post

Re: League Position
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 23 September, 2018 21:18

Bit strange Walks11 that you mention the doom and gloom of others but then state that you include Saints as potential relegation candidates : I think that's worse than the vast majority believe !
I don't think we will be in any danger of relegation at all (hence my pre season prediction of 7th) but what most now seem to be realising is that we have a fairly sub standard squad to really threaten top 4 for some time yet : surely that's just realistic as opposed to doom and gloom.

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