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Average gates
Posted by: Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
Date: 08 July, 2019 19:12

Not sure this has been posted before, if it is I hope it gets deleted.
From the Bristol Live [www.bristolpost.co.uk]

I would say there is room for improvement for the Saints and with the way we have started to play lets hope that an improvement will be seen.
We are 7th.
Average attendance at home stadiums (Total Attendance)
Leicester Tigers – 20,987 (230,855)
Bristol Bears – 16,348 (179,827)
Wasps – 16,160 (177,761)
Gloucester – 14,378 (158,158)
Bath - 14,192 (141,924)
Harlequins – 13,044 (130,435)
Northampton Saints – 12,936 (129,356)
Exeter Chiefs – 12,037 (144,446)
Saracens – 9,191 (101,098)
Worcester Warriors – 8,287 (91,162)
Newcastle Falcons – 7,354 (73,542)
Sale Sharks – 6,586 (72,443)

This figure was calculated using Premiership match reports, excluding games which were all played at larger venues away from clubs' home grounds; rounded to the nearest number.
Games excluded are:
The Clash (Bath v Bristol - 60,152 at Twickenham)
Big Game 11 (Harlequins v Wasps - 82,000 at Twickenham)
The Derby (Leicester v Northampton - 40,013 at Twickenham)



http://chrishoddle.smugmug.com/photos/i-TsCHdzK/0/M/i-TsCHdzK-M.gif

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 08 July, 2019 19:23

Suspect Wasps flattered by very low pricing

Re: Average gates
Posted by: tedge (IP Logged)
Date: 08 July, 2019 21:48

If Saints do well they should get the crowds up to near 15k on a regular basis.It's a bit harder these days partly because I think the number of travelling away fans has dropped off due to tv coverage.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Dragonboy (IP Logged)
Date: 08 July, 2019 21:59

Even more interesting that Sarries and Exeter as our two “top clubs” feature so lowly. Maybe in Exes case it’s because they are not in a population rich catchment area even allowing for the lack of competition. As for Sorries? Well looking at UK based stats eg attendances well maybe there’s nothing special going on there now anymore and now that everyone plays according to the Salary Cap Rules. Just seems though that they can’t bring supporters in at the gates though. As an aside. Has anyone news on the latest cover up of the latest “alleged salary cap breeches? I’m hazarding a guess that a certain someone may have been declared not to be the messiah but has been declared in private to be a very naughty boy. Who chuckled quietly to himself as he boarded his private jet to fly off to ***** classified due to a bung to someone to sort this ***** where he will holiday in a style we can only dream of .............

Re: Average gates
Posted by: shiversaint (IP Logged)
Date: 08 July, 2019 23:06

I'm staggered by Saracens. I knew it wasn't great but that is unbelievably low.

I also think the Derby figure is a lot lower than it should have been, when you look at an average attendance for tigers + saints, you're at 32/3k. Vs the other big games at HQ, our game did very poorly for gate numbers.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: SaintMaul (IP Logged)
Date: 08 July, 2019 23:32

Attendances for teams with large supporter catchment areas like Sarries, Quins, Bristol will continue to grow IMHO.

I wouldn't expect to see town teams like us, Tigers, Gloucester grow much bigger attendances. Town teams have doubled average attendances since the game went professional. But my suspicion is easy growth has already been mined and growth will significantly slow for town teams over the next 20 years. Whereas teams with larger catchments in rugby hotspots will see greater growth.

7th ain't bad 23 years after the dawn of professionalism. Equally it shows how hard it will be for our club, with no sugar daddy, and bottom half of the table average attendances to compete for top 4 where money talks.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Seamo (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 08:33

I may be wrong but I thought Sandy Park only has a capacity of just under 13,000. If so the Exeter figure isn't too bad.

It's a Catch-22 but in ensuring season tickets continue to represent good value, Saints have started to look pretty pricey for the occasional supporter which doesn't help fill the ground.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Saint Ted (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 08:54

It's tough to draw a fair conclusion based on just the average figures, a club can only sell as many tickets as it has capacity for and that is what they will need to be aiming for, that figure then needs to be sustained for a period of time before you increase the capacity, then hope your team doesn't go off the boil and you're left with a half empty stand and average figures below you're previous capacity.

So for comparison, here are the average gate percentages based on the figures from Chris and the capacities listed in Wikipedia, it's a very different read

https://i.imgur.com/bkcKEas.jpg

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 09:01

I think, as you mentioned, the one off tickets can get pricey, so a Season Ticket makes it more affordable to regularly attend.

However, it would appear that the last few seasons of poor rugby have encouraged people to shy away. Hopefully, lasts seasons successes and entertaining rugby will draw supporters back so that we have a decent crowd again.

I do think that the pricing structure is a little off though. The South Stand has always been less expensive than the Churches or Carlsberg, and i think that the Barwell Stand should reflect the South. If there is ever a large gap in the stands, its more than likely to be in the Barwell.

I do like the large temporary signage that has been put up at times to mask this.


Fingers crossed, this season we'll be back to our noisey norm.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 09:17

Ticket revenue per attendee would be an interesting statistic to see. Some changes in the list then, with Saints climbing.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Seamo (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 10:22

As Saint Stokey says, pre-Boyd the rugby was pretty forgettable which didn't help pull in the punters.

As an ex-season ticket holder, I appreciate the value argument for making season tickets look cost-effective but this seems to mean that we have to discourage ad-hoc supporters by making one-off match tickets correspondingly more expensive.

I can't commit to a season ticket right now, particularly with the TV scheduling issues, but I'd be up for making 3 or 4 games a season when I can now that Chris Boyd has got some proper rugby back at the Gardens.

I am, however, put off by being quoted £50+ a ticket whenever I look into it.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 10:58

I remember that there was a 'half season' ticket. Perhaps they should do this again... for the first half then again for the second... perhaps paying a make up to full season ticket if the the first 'half season' ticket has been purchased?

Do the Season Tickets still have a pay in monthly installments option?

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Abington Adam (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 11:10

Stokey, yes you could pay for your season ticket by Direct Debit, but I think that option has expired now.



COME ON YOU SAINTS!
Church's Stand season ticket holder
EMRU Referee

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 11:47

Quote:
Saint Ted
It's tough to draw a fair conclusion based on just the average figures, a club can only sell as many tickets as it has capacity for and that is what they will need to be aiming for, that figure then needs to be sustained for a period of time before you increase the capacity, then hope your team doesn't go off the boil and you're left with a half empty stand and average figures below you're previous capacity.
So for comparison, here are the average gate percentages based on the figures from Chris and the capacities listed in Wikipedia, it's a very different read

https://i.imgur.com/bkcKEas.jpg



another train journey, Mr Portillo ?

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 11:55

Quote:
Saint Ted
It's tough to draw a fair conclusion based on just the average figures, a club can only sell as many tickets as it has capacity for and that is what they will need to be aiming for, that figure then needs to be sustained for a period of time before you increase the capacity, then hope your team doesn't go off the boil and you're left with a half empty stand and average figures below you're previous capacity.
So for comparison, here are the average gate percentages based on the figures from Chris and the capacities listed in Wikipedia, it's a very different read

https://i.imgur.com/bkcKEas.jpg

Thanks Ted, I think that's more meaningful.

90%+ is probably a good target. I would expect our % against capacity to rise this season. I would also expect our season ticket quota to be on the rise again. exciting rugby rather than food, drink, etc is always the telling factor

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Saint Ted (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 12:07

Quote:
Wilson Pickett
Quote:
Saint Ted
It's tough to draw a fair conclusion based on just the average figures, a club can only sell as many tickets as it has capacity for and that is what they will need to be aiming for, that figure then needs to be sustained for a period of time before you increase the capacity, then hope your team doesn't go off the boil and you're left with a half empty stand and average figures below you're previous capacity.
So for comparison, here are the average gate percentages based on the figures from Chris and the capacities listed in Wikipedia, it's a very different read

https://i.imgur.com/bkcKEas.jpg


another train journey, Mr Portillo ?

Not this time, I'd just rather do anything other than my actual job at the minute!

I tried doing the average cost per ticket but info for last season is hard to come by and the 2017/2018 data doesn't seem to support the narrative that saints are more expensive than everyone else

Re: Average gates
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 12:41

As with just about everything you can spin it one way or the other to suit the point you are trying to make. On the face of it Sarries and Chiefs don't look great especially given the form they have shown over the past few years but to get within 900 of capacity has to be pretty good. I think Saints were second a few seasons ago behind Tigers so do seem to have slipped a bit but I know Wasps discount heavily maybe others do as well? Interesting info from Chris and Ted.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Sara'sman (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 13:35

Some interesting posts.

Quote:
Saint Ted
I tried doing the average cost per ticket but info for last season is hard to come by and the 2017/2018 data doesn't seem to support the narrative that saints are more expensive than everyone else

Ted - imo your "behind the posts" prices are a little on the steep side, "side-on" much better value especially with an early bird discount. You may be interested to take a look at a few of the comparisons that I've made over at our place while watching the cricket - see here.

Chris - should your OP also mention that other "big" games have been excluded - ours v Quins and Falcons' "Big One" for example?

Re: Average gates
Posted by: AlexC (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 13:58

I suspect had the tigers match been played at Franklin’s Gardens our average (assuming that would have been a sell out) would be a tad higher, though by only a few hundred I would guess but would probably put us closer to Bath and above Quins.

Re: Average gates
Posted by: Saint Ted (IP Logged)
Date: 09 July, 2019 14:01

Quote:
Sara'sman
Some interesting posts.
Quote:
Saint Ted
I tried doing the average cost per ticket but info for last season is hard to come by and the 2017/2018 data doesn't seem to support the narrative that saints are more expensive than everyone else

Ted - imo your "behind the posts" prices are a little on the steep side, "side-on" much better value especially with an early bird discount. You may be interested to take a look at a few of the comparisons that I've made over at our place while watching the cricket - see here.

Chris - should your OP also mention that other "big" games have been excluded - ours v Quins and Falcons' "Big One" for example?

Thanks for pointing out your stats, based on that ( I only looked at us, tigers, sarries and quins) Average price for a full price paying adult is exactly the same as Tigers and £2 more than Sarries, either I've done something wrong or Quins average is a lot lower by the best part of £80

That said looking at average cost of a season ticket across the stadium throws up all manor of problems as we don't know what tickets have been sold at what price, our new pricing structure for young adults kind of screws it totally

So based on full price adult Saints are £505, but based on the whole structure it's £269, but there are too many variables and not enough knowns for me to give any worthwhile stats (I too have been doing this whilst watching the cricket!)

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