Poor, poor, poor...


Now you earn your corn...
By Andy Brown
September 22 2009

Once again the dolorous notes of a smidge over six thousand varieties of the lesser spotted Yorkshire misery was heard echoing across the rapidly emptying South Stand last Sunday as they witnessed a performance that can only be described in polite terms as "disappointingly inept". And that was just the referee!

The Leeds team, were, if it's actually possible, considerably worse than that. Add into that poisonous brew the fact that London Irish were very much on their game, then you have the recipe for an absolute pasting of a newly promoted side desperately trying to maintain its identity and professional status by staying in the Premiership. If this is the fayre served up, then those die-hards amongst us will soon be getting a bit more Sunday afternoon quality time with the kids.

 

I won't go into a blow-by-blow account of the game – the memory is still to stark, too painful to relate in words. But that was one hell of a bad day at the office. It seemed that whatever Leeds tried, they failed at, and whatever Irish tried, they were successful at. Whenever Leeds started to get to grips with things, the referee stepped in with another mysterious call that gave a cast-iron three points to the opposition. After just twenty minutes or so, it was clear that the Leeds team had already given up when the Irish No. 8 cantered in from half-way and no-one in blue could be bothered to go after him.

 

A depressing number of people appear to have left the game early; certainly if I had chosen not to go to the long room my exit from Car Park F would have been much more straightforward that I'd guessed before the game. And after the fact I hear that there were around a thousand people at the game who were the subject of the Family Ticket marketing campaign – but who of those are likely to return?

 

The messageboard has been alive with the wailing and gnashing of teeth of everyone – myself included – and it has brought out the usual statements: "We're not good enough for this league", "we need to spend big money now or our season is over" are just two of the well aired views. On Sunday afternoon I was certainly in this camp. Doom, gloom, despondency, despair.

 

But, having had a bit of time to think about it and be a bit more rational, I'm less depressed about it.

 

Firstly, the players we have ARE, I think, good enough for the Premiership. They weren't good enough on Sunday, but to reverse the old adage, one blizzard does not make a winter. Yes, they had a very poor game on Sunday, but they will be the first to admit that and will rectify it. This group will not go on and win the Premiership and the Heineken Cup double year after year – they aren't good enough for that, but Premiership survival? Sure they are.

 

Secondly, if there were any better players out there, that are willing to come to Leeds, and Leeds had the money to pay them, and would improve the team overall, do you think the club would be sitting back and ignoring them? Of course not. The signing of Seru Rabeni is proof that when players who fill the criteria above are available, Leeds are ready to step in and get them. The fact that this is an isolated case shows that those criteria are difficult to fill, not that they are unwilling to sign anybody for fear of offending the incumbents.

 

Thirdly, as a bunch of supporters, we aren't doing a very good job. In what was an encouraging display against Newcastle, we moaned. ("Should've won that one"). A battling performance away to Worcester – with a ten minute bad period ("can't compete even against the minnows") and now this, we've done nothing but moan. The players may or may not read the messageboards (surely they have better things to do with their time?) but in their position I would be questioning why I bother. Poor performances – like Sunday's – deserve criticism, but good performances deserve more praise than they're getting.

 

And of course the oft aired thought of the "Big Beasts" who are, we hear, at any minute poised to get back into the country to shore up the scrum and provide some strength in the back-line will provide a lift as well.

 

We have had two home games so far with two reasonable – if not spectacular – crowds. All reason suggests that the Gloucester game on 4th October will have considerably less than six thousand in, but if the players can at least make a game of it at Saints next week, then all is not yet lost. Regain some self respect at Franklin's, and the visit of the Tractor Boys could be worth watching.

 

I've not lost hope or faith that the team will survive – and for the right reasons. Everyone has a bad day from time to time. Sunday was the collective bad day for Leeds, and they must not allow themselves another.

 

They won't.

  

Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 09:59

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Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Mark_C (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 10:07

mmm.... some good points there, Andy.

As somebody who was totally gutted after Sunday I'd actually say that the problems don't necessarily lie with the players. We can argue for decades as to who we should be signing, how we should be getting people through the turnstiles to fund it etc but issues with Leeds as a Premiership club are far deeper than this.

The boys on the pitch will ALWAYS get my support. I will always respect anybody in a Leeds shirt. However turning Sunday's Jazz Band into a Philharmonic Orchestra may require some retuning or additions to the conductors. It's interesting to note that our only try came from a breakaway, and that LI made an influential local signing in the summer who wasn't PLAYING.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:09:22:10:14:10 by Mark_C.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: apb (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 10:13

Quote:
The boys on the pitch will ALWAYS get my support

Likewise I. I was accused by some of fence-sitting after my article in the programme where they asked me "who do you wish we hadn't ever signed?" and I said that anyone in a Leeds shirt deserves - and gets - my support.

Waiting for the good times ...

..and waiting ....


... and waiting ...

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Mark_C (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 10:15

Apart from.......(Sm100)

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Leggs (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 10:21

The Carnegie Challenger

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: SSh-yke (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 10:22

As a rugby fan I had a very enjoyable day on sunday. My throat has just about recovered. In spite of my roaring (near abuse) at the ref and cheating Irish we got an invite from LI fans to meet up on the return leg. Leeds had some good passages of play and I was thoroughly entertained though a little dissappointed because I could see the potential that Leeds have and will improve on in games to come. I am looking forward to every game henceforth to see if my belief will be realised. I think it will. Our lads are good enough I am certain of that.
IMHO We should stop the moaning - get behind our team and enjoy the spectacle of top class rugby whether we win or lose.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: dragon27 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 10:27

The club needs supporters like you Yo-Tyke, I think things will get better, we do get to see some great players visit Headingley and we must remember that London Irish are one of the best teams around at the moment.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Bran (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 11:06

For me LI are the best in the league at this time. So i always expected an @#$%& kicking. I have asked and not been answered, what was the penalty try for? The game was over right then, what was it 5 minutes into the game? So the ref destoyed any game within 5 minutes of kick off. He should be financially accountable for that. I did not feel our fitness was that far off, yes we were blowing more, but having been on the back foot for 80+ minutes I would not expect anything else. Just the pshycological affect of being that far in front enables you to run for ever.
My concern is our sruggling pack. The front row does not look good enough by a mile, to be honnest I'm not convinced Mike or Fossi will make that big a difference. Mike Mcdonalds never looked fit since he joined us, he may be solid but I dont expect him to change the scrum dramatically. The line-outs are working wuite well on the whole. Then the backs...
The number of@#$%&passes in that one game were massive. the jury is still out on CT, but if he's picking balls up from his toes what chance will he have of getting the team forward with a defence that's so far in off side? none at all.That was when it went to a player in Blue and not white. The biggest concern is breaking the line with the backs. Our lads are just too light weight for the prem. I said this about Biggs and the same applies still. When you look at the Irish wing who got three he was far bigger than our back line, and as fast if not faster. My fingers are crossed that Henri and Rabini can give us some edge, but they need to do this very quick. I can only see us putting in a performance agains the St's to get within 7 would be awsome right now.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: merry (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 11:08

good article, andy. no point in dwelling on the negatives, i'm sure those concerned are doing their utmost to address them. and i hope the message about moaning/praise gets through. it's bad enough watching the losses without having to endure the depressing types on here afterwards.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Tukey (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 11:31

Good article I echo everyone and say lets get behind the team!

"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire (1694-1778)

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: John R (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 11:35

Irish were very good on the day, (and I suspect will be right through the season and probably end up top of the league!)

The referee is the worst in the Premiership with a proven track record at ALL grounds of incompetance and blindness.

Our guys were not at their best, (reasons on a postcard to APB.....?)

Given those conditions, how the hell can we fans be pleased with the result?

However, next weekend is the start of our comeback, I hope!

Be at Franklins to cheer them on and watch a much better performance. They do deserve that.

Up the Carnegie TYKES !

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: UxbridgeLegend (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 12:59

1 Bad game does not label you for life (Unless it's played hungover, very badly and in Uxbridge!) and even though I left early, due to Steward botherer jnr falling asleep and giving me pins and needles in my arm! I ain't giving up on one perfomance.
Irish ... Can't see many turning them over on that form. V V impressed with Thompstone, is he English?
Us ... The Visa farce has put us on the back foot, but there are signs all over that we're a much better team than last time, we've simply got to cut out the mistakes (Irish would have won anyway but did we really need to gift them 28 points?)
Ref ... Shocking, they may all be getting well schooled and tested in some technical breakdown shenanigans, but adhering to a simple offside rule would have given our backs at least some time to go forward.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: FOR2008 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 13:19

good article, however, how someone can STILL bang on that players are good enough for this league is beyond me.

Leeds have a chance when the two big lads come into the backline and the props come back, and someone else has as bad a season as us, and I mean only win 1 or 2 games.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: farmertyke (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 13:31

Good article Andy...I think your caption under Mr Back sums it all up really. All the players presumably think they are good enough to play in the GP and they will all want to do better, nobody likes being beaten like that. Its now up to Back and Key to sort the problems out and earn their corn.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: apb (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 13:36

Quote:
how someone can STILL bang on that players are good enough for this league is beyond me.

Because I've seen them play?

Waiting for the good times ...

..and waiting ....


... and waiting ...

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Bran (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 14:02

I have to say there are a few that aren't up to it, I hope they all prove me wrong. The maner that we play this weekend will show a lot. This is about spirit now as I dont expect to gain anything from this game points wise.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: turbotyke (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 14:24

FORM is temporary class is permanent Leeds lack both !

(Sm55) (Sm55) (Sm55) (Sm55) (Sm55) (Sm55) (Sm55) (Sm55)

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: flatron (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 15:59

Completely agree eye.... we lack both. The team we send out is nothing like the team that won the cup not so many moons ago!! I've been there through thick and thin but its beginning to feel like supporting Leeds is not as much fun anymore.
On a more personal note (which will prob get you lot accusing me of 'not being a real fan') How the hell did we let biggs and vicks go YET KEEP welding, blackett and goodridge.... It is actually embarassing!!!

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: exheadingley (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 16:14

FLATRON

It was cheaper to keep those three than Biggs and Vickerman

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 17:28

FLATRON, think thats a bit unfair on Blackett. IMO, one of our bigger, stronger and better backs. Biggs and Vicks contributed little last season, so maybe a bit of sentiment there. As for the other two...

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Loosehead (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 17:45

Quote:
flatron
Completely agree eye.... we lack both. The team we send out is nothing like the team that won the cup not so many moons ago!! I've been there through thick and thin but its beginning to feel like supporting Leeds is not as much fun anymore.
On a more personal note (which will prob get you lot accusing me of 'not being a real fan') How the hell did we let biggs and vicks go YET KEEP welding, blackett and goodridge.... It is actually embarassing!!!

It does appear that we some of us have short memories

"Biggs want to leave Leeds, from YEP May 2008

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: farmertyke (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 18:28

Flatiron, rerun the Leicester Newcastle match if you did not see it. Biggs was twice caught in possession and turned over. Vickerman spurned the chance to pass to Biggs which would have led to a try and soon they will be on sevens duty.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Mark_C (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 19:33

Vickerman not passing to Biggs?? Deja vu, surely!

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: dragon27 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 19:40

Deja Vu!! has he got his visa yet?(Sm105)

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Tyko (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 20:04

Doesn't need one Dragon - he's French.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Leeds Carnegie Signed Flag (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 21:02

We'll sign him then, providing he can catch and pass

Some say he has a Tykes flag with team signatures on.
Others say that he's doing the same to the Carnegie flag,
All we know is that he's called Leeds carnegie signed flag.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: leedscboy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/09/2009 22:11

Here's what backy thinks anyway.

Pain is only temporary but victory is forever

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: jamesinyork2 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 06:18

That comment at the bottom of NB's article is very incisive.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Fergus TP (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 11:11

I remember the time when before swopping my Warriors hat for a Pirate one, Worcester always felt that, as the new boys we were never going to get the benefit of the doubt from Sir. Indeed, against some clubs, it sometimes appeared that Sir, and his cronies, were on the payroll of some clubs, but I now realise that that probably wasn't the case.
Keep fighting.

(Hi Mark, hope all is well (Sm128))

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Mark_C (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 12:21

Ey-up, Fergus, how goes it with you?!

(Sm128)

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Plumgarth (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 15:50

Each player we have at Leeds plays to a very good standard. they would walk into any club in the land outside of the GP. Some of the players dont appear to be quite upto GP levels of intensity and skill set just yet. Can it be coached into them as the season progresses..I dont know. AK says they try to reproduce the pace and power of GP games in training to bring the players upto the pace, but when the games come the pace/power and lack of time on the ball still seems like a shock for some.

I think we have a very good squad that is not finished yet. We are missing a GP 15 by maybe 3 or 4 players. If the club could identify suitable recruits that were available who knows what the squad could do. Lots of ifs but we have a management team who know the score so lets just see what happens over the next couple of weeks. Cant leave things too long though overwise the hill that we have to climb gets steaper and steaper.

I am not ranting now...just trying to be considered and constructive.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: jamesinyork2 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 16:15

I'd be surprised if there are any more signings - I don't think the players or the cash to bring them in are in place.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: tyke-woody (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 17:06

I think the first priority is to get the scrum working, so far we have not dominated and the ball, when we do win it, comes out so slowly that the opposition are right up on our threequarters.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Plumgarth (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 18:28

Yes I agree, but when we try to exert some forward pressure either at scrum time or at the breakdown we keep getting pinged by the ref and giving away penalties. I dont know what half the penalties have been given for but we keep giving them away.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Mally (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 19:28

Quote:
mark c
Vickerman not passing to Biggs?? Deja vu, surely!

Spoke to Biggsey post Tigs match - asked him the question who signed first and explained your thought that he must have done and then sworn lots once Vickerman signed... a wry grin appeared!

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 23/09/2009 21:32

To Leeds fans now, the issue should be irrelevant, they have moved on, we support Leeds, so lets not look back, (even in anger).

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: flatron (IP Logged)
Date: 24/09/2009 12:57

Agree Haxby I wasn't saying Vicks and biggs are wonderful I was simply stating a fact blackett, welding and goodridge are NOT GP standard: Freddy 'they would walk into any club in the land outside of the GP' Thats the point we ARE a GP side now and so need players of this standard.
I don't want to blame players its just sundays performance was shocking and these players stood out from the rest as being the worse. It's just a sad situation to be in with a club I love, its just making it not fun to watch anymore!

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Loosehead (IP Logged)
Date: 24/09/2009 13:47

What is GP Standard ?

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Plumgarth (IP Logged)
Date: 24/09/2009 14:37

Not what some of our players are obviosuly reaching at the moment.

The standard aimed for has to be enough to enable any team in the GP to finish one place above bottom.

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 22/08/2010 08:02

Just found this thread from the start of last season.....

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: John R (IP Logged)
Date: 24/08/2010 10:45

I wondered why we were reading this WW?

You have clearly been digging.......

Up the Carnegie TYKES !

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Tartan Tyke (IP Logged)
Date: 24/08/2010 10:51

WW are you really that bored?
Never mind the fun begins next week

WHATEVER IT TAKES

Re: Poor, poor, poor...
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 24/08/2010 17:32

I just thought it was interesting to see what people were saying after the LI game...


...but yes I am bored! (Sm134)

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