Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on


Is it better?
By Haxbytyke
March 10 2017

In 2014, Sir Ian McGeechan, one of the most respected men in British rugby, unveiled a vision that he hoped would lead to Headingley becoming the home of a prosperous and successful rugby club. His idea was to copy the successful Divisional structure of New Zealand rugby.

The Leeds club would be the pinnacle of the system, enveloping all junior rugby throughout Yorkshire, with players aspiring to play for their parent club. He had discussed the idea with the RFU, both nationally and locally, and believed investment was available to make this a success, providing the club changed its name from Leeds, to Yorkshire.

Sir Ian believed that the club would make big strides forward, and before too long would be an established Premiership club. He sold the project well, players like Ryan Burrows and Jonah Holmes committed to the club, and experienced players like Chris Jones, Andy Saull, and Dean Schofield came along to join the revolution.

Fast forward 3 years. If there has been significant investment off the field, it has not been reflected on it, Carnegie are well established in the Championship, a long way away from looking like a side who could compete at the top level. True the end of season play offs still give us a chance to be promoted, but most observers expect London Irish to claim the ultimate prize. With the play-off system being consigned to the scrapheap, this is probably our best chance of promotion, until, (if it happens), a 14 team Premiership becomes reality. Unless we find a very rich benefactor we cannot hope to even match the struggling teams at the top level. Ryan Burrows and (allegedly) Jonah Holmes believe their Premiership futures now lie elsewhere, and the many talented youngsters who have come through the academy don’t take much persuading to move on..

Carnegie have attempted to spread the word. Club representatives spend hours going into the community to provide coaching to the junior clubs. The club have adopted an ‘on the road’ policy for their B and I cup games, local clubs benefitting financially from the chance to see senior rugby on their own ground. The payback, should be an increase in attendances at Headingley as these clubs and their members become attached to Yorkshire Carnegie, but this has not happened. Why?

It is also fair to say the Yorkshire moniker has not gone down well with our near neighbours at Doncaster and Rotherham, after all why should they introduce youngsters to the game to see them move to Yorkshire after the investments they have made.

As for our own fans, the majority still shout for Leeds, and the players belt out ‘Marching on Together’ after every victory. Those two factors alone probably sum up the last three years. So, has becoming Yorkshire Carnegie improved anything at Headingley? If it has, I must have missed it.

pqs: qs:
Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 09:30

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017:03:25:20:10:12 by Wildwillie .

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: bird lover (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 11:16

NO !!!. COLT !!!!

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: JDH (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 11:16

Do the fans shout for leeds much anymore? Not in my experience even if we are thinking it.
Players move on at every club, big small rich or poor.
The crowds will come for big games and prem Rugby.
At least they are trying something. The alternative might have been a lot worse.

To grow this type scheme takes far longer than 3 years.

As you say we need more investment to be successful and top driven guy in charge.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 11:46

We need more investment but where will it come from? The Championship is a bit of a Cinderella competition and there does not seem to be any great desire from the game's movers and shakers to change that for the better.

If I was an investor I would put my money into a top flight club who get televised and lots of publicity rather than a club which aspires to the top table.

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Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: JDH (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 12:30

They need a benefactor that supports the team / Yorkshire Rugby in this area.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: leemingtyke (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 15:27

Geechs vision of a club representing the whole of the Yorkshire rugby union community at the pinnacle of the domestic and European game really appeals to me.

I have this romantic image of night fixture against one of the European elite, Toulon, Clermont, Racing. Its held at a gleaming new state of the art stadium illuminated against an inky Yorkshire sky. Yorkshire rugby supporters from all over the county, the same guys who give up their spare time every weekend to coach, run the bar or just get their kids to the game on time, are flooding in to support a team made up of lads who came up from those same clubs. Lads who've worked their way up through the structure. Lads who've had the opportunity to move on but chose to stay and in doing so have had access to the best facilities and the opportunity to play rugby at the very highest level for a team with a Yorkshire Rose on the shirt.

In short, I support Geech in what he's trying to do.

I disagree when you say that we haven't seen investment on the pitch. People like Redpath and ex internationals like Saull and Jones won't come cheap. We've seen investment but its happened alongside some shocking judgement. The single most important role at the club is that of DOR/Head Coach, whatever you want to call him, and we haven't got that right for a long time. This year in particular I think, with the possible exception of another fly half, we have had the playing personnel capable of getting the job done but no one seems capable of instilling a professional environment around them in order to instil a professional attitude within them. It all seems a bit sloppy, a bit matey, a bit amateur and results, unsurprisingly, have followed suit. That's where we've fallen short, not because Geechs vision is flawed, but because we haven't put the right General in place to make it happen.

IMHO.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 16:09

I like your romantic image Ming. I also think your last paragraph is right on the money!

(Sm134)

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Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 16:15

I don't like bringing it up again but we should have stuck with Diccon Edwards. I have said that all along. Easily the best of all the coaches we have had since.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 16:54

I remember that DE lacked man management skills. Didn't he slag off a player who was leaving as well? Left a bad taste in my mouth.

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Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 10/03/2017 18:35

If DE was such a hot coach, how come he has not been snapped-up for a top role at another club? Or have I missed something?

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: leemingtyke (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 11:06

I'd agree with NNS that Diccon is the best we've had since relegation.

But he had some quite major flaws.

And that goes someway towards demonstrating my point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017:03:11:11:16:41 by leemingtyke.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 11:16

Has anyone seen NNS and DE in the same room? Just asking.

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Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 12:31

Don't understand where you're coming from WW. We're all allowed an opinion aren't we ?

I happen to believe that he was our best chance of achieving sustainability as a Premiership club. I said that before he arrived and I still believe it now.

The fact that he might have upset one or two was only because it probably meant so much to him being a Yorkshire man and previously playing for Tykes.Most of the other coaches we have had have upset players along the way. Doesn't really bother me if that happens as long as we get the end product.

Without a doubt the best coach we have had for a long time and we have struggled ever since. But that's just my opinion and no one will change it. However, I also respect the opinion of others whilst maybe not agreeing with them.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Mark_C (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 12:35

IMHO the appointment of the next DoR will go some way to showing the true intentions of the club.

Equally, why waste money when there has been a nod and a wink towards inclusion in a 14 team Prem?

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 15:28

Lots of valid points made above, and this is why I asked, are we any further on? We should have appointed a DoR as soon as the change was announced, and we would have been 3 years further down the line. I still fail to see how we are any beter off now, than we were then.

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: bird lover (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 18:32

We are Not !! COLT!!!

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2017 19:56

Just jesting NNS but you do seem to bang the gong for DE when most people have less than great memories of him.

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Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: SideStep (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2017 18:46

I didn't have much time for diccon come the end. But then again i thought Redpath would be a great choice and....well lets how the season ends first.

The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: bird lover (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2017 19:42

Redpath a great choice ???? COLT !!!!

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2017 08:50

No problems WW. Yes I do bang the DE gong because I truly believe that he was the best person for us and I still think that. I just like an individual for whom it means so much (a bit a la Steve Diamond) and I may therefore forgive other perceived sins.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2017 09:28


Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: John R (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2017 13:19

Without going any further with detail..................

I agree with Leeming's long post of the 10th March.

Spot on the button!

Up Yorkshire Carnegie TYKES !

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2017 13:45

I have just read it again John R and I too agree.

In the old County Championship days we used to get thousands coming to Otley or wherever to watch the county side.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2017 13:53

That started to go downhill in a big way with the advent of professionalism and the abolition of the four divisional sides. I still enjoy going to representative matches but big crowds won't turn out to watch players from the third tier and below, however enjoyable the rugby.

If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: leemingtyke (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2017 23:25

Just watched a you tube clip of Owen Farrell speaking to a group of Saracens U18s before a big game and he says something which, for me, sums it up.

It sums up what I've been clumsily trying to say on here for the last few years about where were coming up short and it provides a window into the mindset that is instilled into Saracens players right from the off.

"In big games there are two non-negotiables boys, your physicality and your intensity"

That's the difference between where we are and where we need to be imho.

Re: Yorkshire Carnegie 3 years on
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 25/03/2017 21:10

If we are still living the dream of becoming a Premiership side, we should have some foundations in place. IF, the attitude is, well it's Bristol coming down so they will go straight back up, we will never succeed. We should be building and recruiting to win the Championship next season regardless of who is relegated.
We could of course win promotion this season, then all will be ok.

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

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