Knock-on law
Posted by: Jimeno (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 10:01

In a knock-on, is the law the same as forward pass?

If I understand correctly, in a pass the ball may follow a trajectory towards the opponents' line but if that forward trajectory is because of the speed of the player who has in fact thrown it behind him - that's allowed.

Is it the same in a knock on?

(this morning's Chiefs v Crusaders @ 60:22)



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Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Rich. (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 10:13

Yep just watched that Jimeno. IMO if he'd re-gained control before losing it backwards then it would have been fine but he didn't and so if (as seemed the case) the ball hit the ground closer to the Chiefs line than the point from where he tried to catch it then it has to be a knock-on. What added to the controversy was a couple of knock-on decisions given against the Chiefs later on that didn't appear to be knock-ons at all ; especially the last one from Cruden.

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Jimeno (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 10:37

Sure you're right.

Just watched it again.

As I see it he lost the ball forwards and then batted it backwards slightly which was his last contact.

The ball landed around 2 metres in front of his last contact (easily judged as there is a line) .

So a knock on on two counts: knocked forward and he didn't catch it, and the ball landed in front of his last contact.

UNLESS, as in a pass, the last contact being backwards relative to him (albeit forwards relative to the pitch) makes it OK.

That's the bit I don't know.



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Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: robtheh (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 11:12

Quote:
Jimeno
Sure you're right.
Just watched it again.

As I see it he lost the ball forwards and then batted it backwards slightly which was his last contact.

The ball landed around 2 metres in front of his last contact (easily judged as there is a line) .

So a knock on on two counts: knocked forward and he didn't catch it, and the ball landed in front of his last contact.

UNLESS, as in a pass, the last contact being backwards relative to him (albeit forwards relative to the pitch) makes it OK.

That's the bit I don't know.

Got to be in control of it: if you lose it forwards but manage to kick it before it touches anything else, it’s a knock on. As was this.

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Rich. (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 11:32

Yep agree Rob re the kick bit and that that also shows it was a knock-on this morning - they had the ref, two assistant refs and a TMO so makes you wonder if we are wrong but I don't think we are and I think it was a case of them all deferring to the on-field ref

With the pass the key thing is it not going in a forward direction out of the hand when passed - the similar with knock-on would be if the initial knock went sideways (as was the case with Cruden's) and in which case it is not a knock-on (though unfortunately often called as such)

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 12:12

Didn't see the incident but a knock-on has to hit the ground.

I think the law on a forward pass stiil says the arms can't go forward. That is they have to be angled towards your own dead ball line. It doesn't say anything about what the ball does

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Sider Ken (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 12:48

Can someone explain to me how it's ok to have Chiefs in New Zealand but not Devon?

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 13:14

Yes. It's OK to have Chiefs in Devon. Or anywhere else. Simple.

It's not OK to be racist.

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Rich. (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 14:34

The ball did hit the ground in this case BTW

The area the Chiefs cover is the area with the highest density of Maori in NZ and key Maori towns like Rotorua. So the Chiefs for them refers to Maori chiefs not native American ones. The Chiefs make a big thing of Maori heritage and inclusion and for sure the name had local support when chosen and still does have.

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Muzza (IP Logged)
Date: 02 August, 2020 12:06

The comment by Sider Ken I found staggering. You need to get out a bit more.

The reply by Rich may explain to Sider Ken that the Exeter Chiefs have a marketing relationship with native Americans while the NZ Chiefs team ethos is founded on local Maori heritage from the surrounding areas.

It was a knock on. The ball went forward and hit the ground.

So Warren Gatland is now the new James Bond 007 -
0 Wins
0 Draws
7 Losses

Re: Knock-on law
Posted by: Jim H (IP Logged)
Date: 03 August, 2020 09:47

Quote:
Sider Ken
Can someone explain to me how it's ok to have Chiefs in New Zealand but not Devon?

Waikato Cheifs approach to native imagery (ref 202 shirt) decided on in conjunction with local Iwi (tribe): The front part of the jersey is dedicated to Tūmatauenga (T&#363winking smiley and qualities of battle. Tū is the figure adorning the centre poupou (pillar). Rurutangiākau is also displayed on the centre poupou.

The dominant figure of Akerautangi is the two-headed taniwhā prominent on the front and the rear of the jersey and wrapped around the centre poupou (pillar).

The front infill also depicts wai (water) the dwelling place of taniwhā and the feature that connects the Chiefs regions.

The back of the jersey is dedicated to Rongomatane (Rongo) and qualities of preparation and planning. Rongo is the figure on the poupou with Akerautangi featuring again wrapped around the poupou.

The infill graphics for the rear of the jersey are kōriri (to flourish) and speak for the need to prepare well for battle.

Gallagher Chiefs Training Jersey:
This jersey is dedicated to Rongomatane (Rongo) and qualities of preparation and planning. Rongo is the figure on the poupou with Akerautangi featuring wrapped around the poupou.

The infill or the rear of the jersey are kōriri (meaning to flourish) and harakeke (meaning cohesion and unity) and speak for the need to prepare well for games.

The three woven harakeke baskets have two meanings. Firstly, they represent, ngā kete o te wānanga (meaning the three baskets of knowledge), telling us that knowledge acquisition is all important in game preparation. Secondly the Māori axiom “Nāu te rourou, nāku te rourou, ka ora ai te iwi” meaning “Your food basket and mine will sustain the tribe”, outlines the importance of individual contribution and nutrition while preparing for battle.

Exeter approach to Native American imagery: "lets have a cartoon Indian"

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