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Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 11:48

To be delayed due to RWC

Outcome has been decided though.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/10/2019 11:48 by Tiggs.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: KevinR (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 12:17

Would there need to be a delay if they'd been let off or if the punishment was insignificant?

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SimonG19 (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 12:45

Quote:
KevinR
Would there need to be a delay if they'd been let off or if the punishment was insignificant?

Possibly. Can't see any significant punishment this time either but it really doesn't matter. They paid a settlement fee to make it all go away last time so as far as I am concerned everything they won then and since is tainted and the league is corrupt.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 12:51

As the article says whatever the outcome it's going to upset someone and be a big talking point.

I don't think its unreasonable to delay it for a further 12 days. You just know the likes of Probyn and other union dynosaurs would blame the Premiership if they announced it today and we lost to New Zealand. At least this way they have to think a little to work out how they are going to blame us.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: PrestonTiger (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 16:02

They're still searching for a big enough carpet to brush it under

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: daktari (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 17:17

Quote:
PrestonTiger
They're still searching for a big enough carpet to brush it under

It would need to be a magic carpet !
OK, I will get my coat

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: Yorkie (IP Logged)
Date: 23 October, 2019 18:30

They're down the shops now ordering whitewash in bulk.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: FenTiger (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 07:40

IF the rumours are correct with regard to a points deduction how would this be applied now the season has started and the findings not revealed for a couple of weeks or so?
For example, if previous years form comes into play and Sarries win next Sunday with/without bonus points would they be taken away or match voided?
And what if Tigers performance is upped and we achieve a minimum of a LBP or (dreaming) a TBP, are those taken away also.
The assumption would be (if) we win and there is no LBP for Sarries then the result/points allocation would stand?
Are there Premiership Rugby protocols already in place for this eventuality?

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: Elder (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 08:05

My conspiracy theory:-
- large points deduction this season to demonstrate how seriously this is being dealt with etc etc
- Sarries finish bottom of the league,
but
Prem is ring fenced before end of season, no relegation, Newcastle promoted.
Everyone’s a winner!

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 13:03

Sarries could have the full 35 points taken off them and not finish bottom

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SimonG19 (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 13:16

If guilty automatic relegation and titles struck from the record should be the punishment for this second offence..

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 20:32

It isn't a second offence.

The whole point of (allegedly) paying a settlement figure is that it is considered no offence has occurred.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 20:52

Quote:
SK 88
It isn't a second offence.
The whole point of (allegedly) paying a settlement figure is that it is considered no offence has occurred.

In some people's world.....
that is the problem with perception... most supporters i know think Saracens have been doing variations of the same for years.

You can gloss over that by saying haters going to hate etc...jealousy, etc, but i really dont buy that myself, i think most sports fans want to see fair competition ...it is the fundamental and compelling reason why people love sports and they are massively contempuous of cheating.

That is why they want to see an end to it and for any credible organisation they cant tolerate or ignore it.

Rugby and the administrsors and investors integrity is at stake, imv

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 24 October, 2019 21:40

Fortunately for Tigers the decisions don’t go by the court of public opinion otherwise we’d be stripped of all titles as popular opinion had it we had to be doing something dodgy. I agree there is a nasty whiff about Bath and Saracens last time but there is no ruling against them, therefore this will be a first offence if decided that way. Personally I think all of the clubs were guilty of spineless behaviour on the last one.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: Johns (IP Logged)
Date: 25 October, 2019 05:37

Very large HGV on its way from Axminster

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 25 October, 2019 07:45

Quote:
Stopsy
Fortunately for Tigers the decisions don’t go by the court of public opinion otherwise we’d be stripped of all titles as popular opinion had it we had to be doing something dodgy. I agree there is a nasty whiff about Bath and Saracens last time but there is no ruling against them, therefore this will be a first offence if decided that way.

Exactly.

There is no prior ruling on them, so it is a first offence and that will be considered in whatever ruling is passed down.

That's not an opinion on the rights and wrongs of it, but it is the position they/we are in.

I wonder if we might see the full 35 point penalty with somewhere around half suspended for a few years?

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: IanC (IP Logged)
Date: 25 October, 2019 07:58

What would be more interesting would be a ruling that required them to come back within the salary cap, presumably within a relatively short period. Lots of potential for litigation all over the place with such a ruling.

Bottom line - if a rich person wants to 'give' somebody money they'll generally find a way to do so.

Personally I'd still be mildly surprised if the 'punishment' isn't minor and agreed with Nigel Wray in advance in order to avoid litigation that could drag on for years. Or maybe the rest have found a backbone lying around somewhere.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
Date: 25 October, 2019 08:43

I think if litigation is threatened, the Prem (and RFU, who award the academy credits and EQP payments) need to take it head-on to even maintain a pretence of cap control.

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: IanC (IP Logged)
Date: 25 October, 2019 08:50

Quote:
Brownian Motion
I think if litigation is threatened, the Prem (and RFU, who award the academy credits and EQP payments) need to take it head-on to even maintain a pretence of cap control.


Agreed, which is why I expect something that's been agreed behind closed doors - suspended points deduction, a fine, nothing said about ongoing investment assistance...

Re: Celery Cap Ruling for Sarries
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 25 October, 2019 11:28

They can't do a punishment without ruling the investments are against the cap and forcing him to divest them.
Otherwise they aren't against the rules so there won't be any punishment.

We shall see soon anyway. I just hope they publish a full decision so we have some transparency in the league.

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