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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 13:12

This continued presence of Saracens in the league whilst retaining all their players is a fail in the whole process by RPL.

In order to continue to 'play' games, they should have been made to re declare their squad. Anyone over cap, cant play...or they are deregistered and not able to be selected.
It is the whole point of cap anyway.

The sooner they are out of the equation, the better and the epl can look to begin to move on, imv.

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 16:04

Except that they have been punished for being over the Cap at the year end, when it would normally be checked and discovered.
So usually all matches would be played, and the fine and pts deduction made after the season had ended.
The fact that decisions have been made now just messes this up.
If you stop the players playing that are over the Cap, then they could argue that they are not then over the Cap, and so no punishment can be made.
In order to make the punishment, you have to allow them to be over the Cap.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 17:02

Open the books to get to the bottom of the question of being in cap or not...

What this all means is the RPL processes are not robust or far reaching enough. The cap punishments look to cater for small overspends not a systemic abuse the the value that Saracens are...which is thought to be over 1m per season for 2 seasons, and closer to 2mill for another...?
I think even Saracens are accepting of 650k per year...no small change and might account for topping up 5 players salaries...??

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: trummy200 (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 17:26

I would agree with John - the blatant cheating was outside the mindset of those who drafted, and those that agreed upon the S.C. documents

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: ouch!_that_hurts (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 23:30

Quote:
Rich W
Salarians (SaŁarians?) - I like this one. It's my favourite so far.

I understand the correct spelling is $aŁaR„a₦$ R₣₡

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Saint.Kenneth (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 01:30

Why were they given the option to chose between opening their books or being relegated? Surely they should have been forced into opening their accounts if they wanted to ever be allowed back into the Premiership again.

I don't think PRL have handled this well at all. People (Nigel Wray at the top of the list) should be given life bans. Can we really assume that Mark McCall knew nothing about the budgets he was working under and the wages of his players? Surely he must know the cap constraints or he'd try and sign even more of the world's best players?

Are the players that accepted the 'extra' cash totally innocent? Is being ignorant an acceptable defence? It isn't in criminal law. When you work in a job where the amount of money you are being paid has to fall under a limit and someone offers you more money via a joint venture, do you really not ask questions about its 'legality' within the rules?

As for the trophies and titles, well they should be null and void. I don't want some Sarries supporter in 2050 (should the club survive) boasting about how successful they were in this period of time. The shame of being found out as cheats should live with them in the history books forever. I wonder if next years kit will have their little stars on it for the titles that they've corruptly won?

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 08:28

Nobody gives their titles any credence so for me, im not that concerned. Eventually, they have to be taken away...i just find it amusing so much focus is on them by Saracens. What planet are they on if they think they can retain them because they 'won' them...
This is a another example of the complete delusion many associated with the club, exude..

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: odd-shaped vagaries (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 09:37

Do we get those biscuits back?



The referee is the final arbitrary
.. dementiaaahll!

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 09:41

You jest of course Rog but that was an early example of the corporate psychopathy of Sarries under Wray/Venter/Griffiths. The 'how dare you, don't you know the rules just don't apply to us' mentality.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Duncan Keene (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 10:09

Quite Rich. I've always had that in the back of my mind even when sometimes enjoying the biscuit related humour. It was a huge distraction tactic from what had happened and the press fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 11:04

I suspect the 'gentlemen' of the press have been well 'entertained' by Wray on regular intervals.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 12:53

And so PRL are saying that Sarries should tell their fans why there are relegated, it is not for them to do so without Sarries permission.
They make a good point, that Sarries did not have to accept relegation, but did, presumably because the alternative, upon proper investigation, would have been even worse, and the punishment even greater.
It seems that in reality, that Sarries should have been banned from the professional sport forever, but have managed to dodge that bullet by not fighting the relegation, that interestingly is not catered for in the Laws regarding the Salary Cap, and so Sarries could have sucessfully challenged this in a Court of Law, but again chose not too, as this would have involved the full story being released.
Just how bad was it, and will we, or the Sarries fans ever know ?



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 13:08

And.....Saracens have instructed their lawyers to write to PRL & demand that the report is NOT made public, is allegedly why PRL have not released the report.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 13:10

Seems a lot of Sarries fans are calling for the club to come clean but the silence from that quarter is deafening.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Tigersfan1 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 13:14

The specialist PR firm they appointed a few months ago has a strange way of dealing with...well...PR!

Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 18:14

And now PRL are going to release the report anyway



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Yorkie (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 18:22

Quote:
PrestonTiger
Wonder if I can put a claim against them for this year's seadon ticket cost in the small claims court ?
(Could be worth the Ł35 fee just to test the water)

If all the Prem clubs' STHs did that, Sarries wouldn't be able to cope with the admin and so would probably lose the majority of said claims due to submitting no defence.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 20:27

Except i doubt that there would be deemed a case to answer, so all cases would be dismissed.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 22:28

I think they'd be combined and only one case heard.



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Re: Salarysins titles nedd to be expunged from record books
Posted by: PrestonTiger (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 23:45

I suspect it would be just like the claims for banks to be clean about banking fees and penalties a few years ago (penalty fees being unlawful in English contract law)
Many went uncontested in small claims courts as they didn't want to have to reveal their finances amd the fact they were milking customers.

Its when the volume gets large enough they do choose to take it up and then in a real court rather than the small claims.

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