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Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: jojo (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 20:28

I've been thinking about Sarries predicament and now that Nigel W has severed ties (but not family ties) I wonder who will pick up the annual debt that Sarries generate every year. Their sponsors are starting to get cold feet, gates and ticket prices are going to take a hit and who knows who is going to pay the 5.4million compensation to the 11 compliant clubs. No doubt there are going to be cuts but these are going to cost in severance and compromise agreements. Can Sarries afford them and will the Wray family stick with Sarries after the way that they have been treated by the England rugby establishment.

I would not be at all surprised to see them go into administration.

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 20:44

I very much doubt the Wray family would allow that to happen, after all they have their reputation to think of 😇

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: DoubleChampions (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 22:17

Quote:
Stopsy
I very much doubt the Wray family would allow that to happen, after all they have their reputation to think of 😇

I sincerely hope you are right Stopsy - it is the employees and 3rd party suppliers that need to be right at the forefront of thought at this time.



+1

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: tigersince74 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 22:21

Yes as it could be the only way the Wray family can protect their assets.

If Saracens top the Championship in 20/21 there are eligibility criteria which they need to be in compliance with. One of the criteria is the Salary Cap Regulations. They need to show that in topping the Championship they have done so by complying with the salary cap for the Premiership 20/21 season and the previous season 19/20 which they have just failed. So the earliest they could return is 22/23 season a full two years out of the Premiership.

Allianz and Nike will soon walk away from sponsorship as they cannot be associated with wholescale cheating and potentially fraud. New sponsors will be hard to find.

Lord Dyson (the panel chair) is very critical of the secrecy of PRL as he believes there is huge public interest in his findings which the public has a right to know. When pressed he said there were competition law issues. If that is true all Clubs, sacked management and supporters could have civil claims against Saracen.

The only way out may be liquidation



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2020 15:53 by tigersince74.

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: daktari (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 22:24

Quote:
DoubleChampions
Quote:
Stopsy
I very much doubt the Wray family would allow that to happen, after all they have their reputation to think of 😇

I sincerely hope you are right Stopsy - it is the employees and 3rd party suppliers that need to be right at the forefront of thought at this time.
Sadly it`s always the "little people" who will really suffer. The rich will always walk away with their filthy lucre in tact.

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: PrestonTiger (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 22:52

From a pure righteous viewpoint administration / liquidation, provided it was accompanied by the Richmond style relegation to the North Londonshire div 7B would be good.

But as DoubleChampions says, its the normal people who are employed there - ticket office staff, cleaners, securiry staff, physios, laundy people etc who will actually be the ones most significantly shafted (just as they are in every company that goes to the wall due to senior management fhuckkups) - whilst the wealthy stay wealthy.

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 00:52

Quote:
jojo
I've been thinking about Sarries predicament and now that Nigel W has severed ties (but not family ties) I wonder who will pick up the annual debt that Sarries generate every year. Their sponsors are starting to get cold feet, gates and ticket prices are going to take a hit and who knows who is going to pay the 5.4million compensation to the 11 compliant clubs. No doubt there are going to be cuts but these are going to cost in severance and compromise agreements. Can Sarries afford them and will the Wray family stick with Sarries after the way that they have been treated by the England rugby establishment.
I would not be at all surprised to see them go into administration.
I believe the fine is already paid. There will be no severance pay due to that still being within the cap, players will move, end contacts organically or loan out. Wray has already said financial support won't change. I think they recently got a loan, first installment in excess of 10m from Barnet council for development of their stand...that'll need repaying.

Wrays have got cash for days..I don't think there is any issue with financials

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 03:53

They will likely get an parachute payment from PRL but it won't cover the loss of BT money so they will have to cut their cloth or get more from Wray.

Last time we (Saints) went down we asked fans to keep paying the same Season ticket price (optionally) as Pledged ST holders, to try and maintain our squad, they agreed to honor that rate for a number of years as a reward.

Even then a lot of backroom staff had to go, we even has to use the laundrette in St james as we couldn't afford the outside contractor any more.

I expect id they want to maintain the squad they will nees another 3mil a year. But he might be Happy to pay out. People can be loyal/Stubborn....

I do expect gate numbers to drop drastically. I would say they have 4k of loyal fans who will stick with them. The others will be either so peed off they will be lost or glory hunters who will turn up at Quins or elsewhere.

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Parcdeprince (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 07:22

"Quins" and "glory hunters".
In the same sentence!!
Made me smile!!

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: odd-shaped vagaries (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 10:15

Quote:
PrestonTiger
... But as DoubleChampions says, its the normal people who are employed there - ticket office staff, cleaners, securiry staff, physios, laundy people etc who will actually be the ones most significantly shafted (just as they are in every company that goes to the wall due to senior management fhuckkups) - whilst the wealthy stay wealthy.

Quite

It is the whole liquidation/bankruptcy scam which is anathema



The referee is the final arbitrary
.. dementiaaahll!

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 11:01

Question - a lot of what happens going forward still depends upon backing from the Wray family. Should Nigel not be disqualified from being anywhere near rugby permanently, at this point?

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 11:26

Surely he would not pass wendyball's 'fit and proper' test?



...

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 11:45

You say that, Mike Ashley, Venky's and numerous others have...

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: renko (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 11:56

Quote:
tigersince74

If Saracens top the Championship in 20/21 there are eligibility criteria which they need to be in compliance with. One of the criteria is the Salary Cap Regulations. They need to show that in topping the Championship they have done so by complying with the salary cap for the Premiership 20/21 season and the previous season 19/20 which they have just failed. So the earliest they could return is 22/23 season a full two years out of the Premiership.

I read the regulations on Salary Cap compliance for the potential promoted team and thought the same as you however on reading again I am not sure if the compliance actually requires the team to provide evidence of complying for the previous season (in Sarries case it would be 2020/21) and evidence that they will be complying for the season to come in the Premiership (2021/22). I would really like to see clarification of some kind. Of course next season they may well be still unravelling the mess of this season and any payouts for ending contracts if not sorted within this season will count towards the cap in 2020/21 (which in itself presents problems as they will be even more over the cap this season but I presume that's why relegation was the only option). If a player doesnt want to have their contract ended particularly if they can't find a new club or they bring lawyers to the table it could easily rumble into next season Plus they will still have some serious wages to pay if OF's 750K is true. So, it could well be they don't fall within the cap next season either

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 12:01

<shrugs>



...

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: renko (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 12:19

great response thanks

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 12:30

Sorry - my response was not aimed at you but to the previous post. You posted your comment before I managed hit send.



...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2020 12:31 by Rich W.

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: renko (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 12:57

No problem!

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 14:40

Quote:
Rich W
<shrugs>

As a Newcastle fan, that's pretty much how I feel about football a lot of the time these days!

Re: Are Sarries in serious danger of going into liquidation?
Posted by: tigersince74 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 16:21

Hi Renko. Initially the only copy I could find of the salary cap regulations was for season 18/19 which says

15 Promoted Club

15.1 A Promoted Club shall, within 28 days of receiving confirmation of promotion to the Aviva Premiership from PRL, comply with the requirements of Regulation 4.4 by providing to the Salary Cap Manager the documents listed in Regulation 4.4.

15.2 A Promoted Club shall provide copies of its Declaration for the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year and its Certification for the 2017-18 Salary Cap Year as required under Regulations 4.2 and 4.3.


I now have a copy of the 19/20 regs which says

15 Promoted Club

15.1 A Promoted Club shall, within 28 days of receiving confirmation of promotion to the Gallagher Premiership from PRL, comply with the requirements of Regulation 4.4 by providing to the Salary Cap Manager the documents listed in Regulation 4.4.

15.2 A Promoted Club shall provide copies of its Declaration for the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year and its Certification for the 2017-18 Salary Cap Year as required under Regulations 4.2 and 4.3.


Spot the error the dates were not changed from one year to the next! It should read for the end of this season the promoted club provides copies of its declaration of complying with the salary cap 19/20 and certification of the previous year 18/19.

The new regs for next season 20/21 are usually published in February so not long to wait. It is normally compliance in the promotion year and the previous year

If Saracens finish top 20/21 they will need to be compliant in the successful Championship season and the previous year 19/20 which they failed and elected to be relegated.

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