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Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 07:55

Apparently Bath and Gloucester have first team squad members on season long loans to other clubs, having played under a few minutes, they then return and play for their club without fully counting toward the cap.

Story in Telegraph behind a pay wall.

In no way comparable to Saracens as it is a loophole in the laws rather than blatant disregard.

Hopefully Lord Myners will be able to tighten things up so they look like they were drafted by people with an education above primary school.

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 10:44

If we have then they are in no way senior players.



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 10:53

McPhillips at least.

Although it's a nothing story.
Written by someone who wants to try and get into the hot topic.

They can't play more than 4 games for you.
Only way to be brought back is via injury replacement and they would count in the injury cap.

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 11:10

I'm unclear what's wrong with this?



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Jon T (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 11:46

Quote:
Rich W
I'm unclear what's wrong with this?

Ditto

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 12:11

The potentail that we were knowingly over the Cap, were hoping to hide it, as did Sarries, and now need to loan out players to be under the Cap, as it's not worth the risk.
As said, a nothing story.



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Mrs H (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 12:17

I see in that article, the good Doctor was trying to deflect criticism

“However, Venter suggested the rule was an example that Saracens were not the only team using the system to their advantage. “People do funny things when they are in trouble and in Saracens’ case, they are trying now to be whiter than white and say, ‘Look, we told them this is what we did’,” he added. “We lost and we accept that.”

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 12:28

Quote:
Tiggs
The potentail that we were knowingly over the Cap, were hoping to hide it, as did Sarries, and now need to loan out players to be under the Cap, as it's not worth the risk.
As said, a nothing story.

But you can't be over the cap if you loan players out in this way. As long as they haven't played too many games for you.



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 12:38

Yes, but you could be if you didn't loan them out, and no intention of doing so, until you thought that you would get caught.
If Sarries had been smarter they might have been able to loan some of their players out at the start of the season, and get under the Cap. But decided that they would not be "found" out, and took the risk.



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 12:40

Just to be clear, loaning the players out is nothing wrong, but doing it to offset other things that you are doing wrong, and are found out, is a way of getting away with it when discovered, albeit not unlawfully.



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 12:44

I think this is straining a point - the purpose of this provision is to allow teams to loan out players without them affecting salary cap headroom. If you're going to exceed the cap and use this at any stage you're using it for it's purpose. Not declaring a salaray cap breach is the issue .



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 13:00

Indeed, it wasn't actually my point, it was someone else's that I was trying to explain.



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Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 13:57

Why did Bath allegedly declare a season long loan for Mike Williams to play for under a minute for Yorkshire Carnegie?

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 15:11

Quote:
Stopsy
Why did Bath allegedly declare a season long loan for Mike Williams to play for under a minute for Yorkshire Carnegie?

They always said he was going for a game to Yorkshire Carnegie, who were having squad issues (due to their financial woes) for a single match only.

[www.bathrugby.com]

As he has played more than 5 games for Bath since he got back (he has played 8 so far) he wouldn't be exempt anyway. The only other notable senior player to go out on loan in recent times has been Attwood to Toulon but he didn't play for Bath all season so was exempt anyway. A few very young academy guys have gone out but they would have been on peanuts. We can't really work out what its all about tbh.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Mrs H (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 15:41

Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Stopsy
Why did Bath allegedly declare a season long loan for Mike Williams to play for under a minute for Yorkshire Carnegie?

They always said he was going for a game to Yorkshire Carnegie, who were having squad issues (due to their financial woes) for a single match only.

[www.bathrugby.com]

As he has played more than 5 games for Bath since he got back (he has played 8 so far) he wouldn't be exempt anyway. The only other notable senior player to go out on loan in recent times has been Attwood to Toulon but he didn't play for Bath all season so was exempt anyway. A few very young academy guys have gone out but they would have been on peanuts. We can't really work out what its all about tbh.

Sh*tstirring probably

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 16:16

Thanks BathMatt53, makes sense

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 16:22

Tigers dual register young 'uns to teams in lower leagues, here's 3 at Leicester Lions
[twitter.com]
They have played for Tigers in the development side as did Lions No8 Nick Cairns, seems guests and DR's are common in the dev games.

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: renko (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 17:06

it seems an obvious thing to do for younger players and fringe1st teamers so that they get game time especially at a higher age range for the younger players than they might otherwise do. This all whilst they are training at the main club in the day time and S&C can be monitored/worked on.

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 17:20

But DR isn't the same as season long loans right?

Re: Have we loaned players out this season?
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 21:11

Dr's do last for the season, but the players don't always seem to be available every week , example James Grayson was a DR to the Lions a couple of seasons back, think he played around 10 games, whereas Lewis seemed to be available from the Tigers a lot more.

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