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Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: SimonG19 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 15:02

Quote:
(JSF)
Interesting comments from Coventry and Doncaster (I think) about either forming a break-away league, or imposing a £2.5M salary cap next season.
Now the latter would certainly give Salrysins some sleepless nights!

Well the Premiership salary cap didn't worry them too much!

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Garym (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 15:54

It would also help if all clubs in the championship want to be promoted. Some of 5hem do while the vast majority donít, which leads to the point of asking x why bother! We (Worcester) had the farcical situation the first year we got relegated that 3 out of the 4 clubs in the play off semi finals did not want to be promoted. So while 5here are plenty of gripes with the RFU, there is also plenty to be thrown at the clubs them,selves

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 18:43

[www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk]

Charlie Beckettís viewpoint.

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 19:31

Quote:
Garym
It would also help if all clubs in the championship want to be promoted. Some of 5hem do while the vast majority donít, which leads to the point of asking x why bother! We (Worcester) had the farcical situation the first year we got relegated that 3 out of the 4 clubs in the play off semi finals did not want to be promoted. So while 5here are plenty of gripes with the RFU, there is also plenty to be thrown at the clubs them,selves

This old canard again. i have only ever seen them say that with the strong caveat "under the current structure".

I.e. what;s the point when you can't have an academy because the Premiership have all the licenses, you get about half of the income the others do (less even than the team you replace in the Premiership) and have to meet unrealistic ground criteria (that current clubs with 20 years of protectionism struggle to meet) before you even know if you are going up.

Have you seen Coventry, Pirates, Ealing and Scottish's document on how to drive the league forward? Hardly teams without ambition.

The system is broken. What you are showing is how badly it is broken and why we must make it fair. Using it to justify excluding clubs is like if Oxford or Cambridge reacted to criticism over lack of black students by saying "well they don't want to come here anyway". People not wanting promotion is a massive slight on how the Premiership is run and who it is designed to benefit (clue not you, not me, not the players, 13 people).

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Tom Paine (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 20:39

Well said, SK. And thanks for the link tigersimon - well worth reading.

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 22:22

Quote:
SK 88
Quote:
Garym
It would also help if all clubs in the championship want to be promoted. Some of 5hem do while the vast majority donít, which leads to the point of asking x why bother! We (Worcester) had the farcical situation the first year we got relegated that 3 out of the 4 clubs in the play off semi finals did not want to be promoted. So while 5here are plenty of gripes with the RFU, there is also plenty to be thrown at the clubs them,selves

This old canard again. i have only ever seen them say that with the strong caveat "under the current structure".

I.e. what;s the point when you can't have an academy because the Premiership have all the licenses, you get about half of the income the others do (less even than the team you replace in the Premiership) and have to meet unrealistic ground criteria (that current clubs with 20 years of protectionism struggle to meet) before you even know if you are going up.

Have you seen Coventry, Pirates, Ealing and Scottish's document on how to drive the league forward? Hardly teams without ambition.

The system is broken. What you are showing is how badly it is broken and why we must make it fair. Using it to justify excluding clubs is like if Oxford or Cambridge reacted to criticism over lack of black students by saying "well they don't want to come here anyway". People not wanting promotion is a massive slight on how the Premiership is run and who it is designed to benefit (clue not you, not me, not the players, 13 people).

Great post!



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Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 13 February, 2020 23:17

Excuse the intrusion! I read this site but keep quiet as not a Tigers fan, but can I add to the praise for the post from SK88. I totally agree with the sentiments but couldn't come close to putting them across so well!

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: odd-shaped vagaries (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 08:23

£2.5m Championship salary cap .. clever .. a relegated would contravene it instantly just through existing contracts .. probably



The referee is the final arbitrary

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 08:58

There would have to be a -ve parachute payment whereby all their excess income from PRL and their residual cap in excess of the Championship cap would have to be paid into Championship central funds!!thumbs down(Sm22)



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/02/2020 09:00 by Rich W.

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 12:09

The easiest way for Saracens to get under the cap would be to buy two other championship clubs and spread their players between all 3, they can then guarantee one of the 3 would be promoted :-)

I am not so certain that the Premiership really want the A-league to be the second tier, a few take it seriously but most clubs just use it as a way to get a bit of match fitness for returning players. They wouldnt want it to take away from their main product. In reality I am not sure which clubs even believe in relegation dispute what they say in public. With your business head on (and a very short term view) its a bad thing but in the long term if you dont increase movement between leagues the product goes stale and supporters get board. Just look at the Pro (however many this week).

The only league structure that looks healthy is in France where teams move between the two leagues pretty regularly. Going from a top team two second division and vice versa seems to be fairly achievable as long as you have a rich backer.

PRL really does have a strangle hold on Professional rugby in this country and because of that they hold the upper hand with the RFU also. They own the players, They control the access and as such slowly they are getting everything they think they want.

I still maintain that if the two leagues joined they would (in time) be much stronger overall and we could have a bit more variety in who we play. (and a league cup too please). Unfortunately we keep moving in the other direction.

So what happens when we only have 12 viable teams (maybe 13?) .. Two of the rich old duffers who bankroll them die and their kids prefer football? do the other clubs give them more money to keep going? Do we drop to a 10 team league? Very short sighted.... How many of these rich owners are under the age of 60? 70? ..

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 12:54

Quite.

I also think it would be more attractive to sponsors and broadcasters to have a competitive second tier and movement between the divisions.

The reason we have PRL being so aggressively defensive and in consequence shortsighted, is because the Ah F You is historically and continuously, so relentlessly rapacious.



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Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: SK 88 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 12:54

Ducksonstilts,

once we have ring fencing they can cut the investment to nothing, and have Cincinnati Bengals style team that sits at the bottom turning their owner a profit, and if any one else wants in they will have to pay handsomely for the privilege.

Ring fencing means the owners no longer have to invest in anything so we get a poorer product on the field and the players earn less, but they have an asset that is severely limited in supply that if needed can be sold on for way more money than at present.

The fact the new people might not want a team in Worcester (or Newcastle, or Sale, or Gloucester, or Leicester or Northampton), but fancies one in Birmingham no longer matters. The ring fenced license is all that matters and he can move the club into his new environs LA Chargers style.

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Egg Timer (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 14:58

Quote:
(JSF)
Interesting comments from Coventry and Doncaster (I think) about either forming a !
Coventry, Doncaster, Pirates, ealing Trailfinders, London Scottish.... all with the same thoughts. The link explains here

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: (JSF) (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 15:38

Many thanks Egg Timer

An interesting & thought provoking read - shame the FRU can't be bothered to look at it

Direct link here



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/02/2020 15:39 by (JSF).

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Egg Timer (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 17:46

It's a complete crock. I know our DoR had, on Wednesday alone, over 100 calls from players and coaches in the Championship looking for jobs as they were all in fear of losing their jobs with their current employers at the end of the season.

Respect, the RFU tell us, is one of their core values. Where's the respect for anyone hin this decision?

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: Yorkie (IP Logged)
Date: 14 February, 2020 18:53

Quote:
odd-shaped vagaries
£2.5m Championship salary cap .. clever .. a relegated would contravene it instantly just through existing contracts .. probably

Actually, if the Player contracts are written so that if relegation occurs there is either an instant break/ending of said contract or an appropriate salary reduction then meeting this figure for any club but Sarries (who appear not to believe in salary caps) should not be a problem. A lot of football contracts for players and staff have Premiership and Championship salary figures listed.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Trouble For Championship and Ring Fencing
Posted by: IDLETIMES (IP Logged)
Date: 15 February, 2020 13:42

Fully agree with what 'Stops' said at the top of the post

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