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Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 20 August, 2019 17:33

Some thoughtful analysis.

I still don't think Sarries will be using Elliot in the back three!

[www.planetrugby.com]



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Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 14:55

TT where will they use him then? My views are known but he has some issues as a centre too if Sarries are looking for him to defend at all (or even lead the defence)

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: AlanE (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 15:41

If the coaches could sort out Charlie's defence I'm sure they will do a good job on him.



I was 17 miles from Graybridge before I was caught by the school leopard

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: Garp285 (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 16:16

Quote:
SarrieSaint
TT where will they use him then? My views are known but he has some issues as a centre too if Sarries are looking for him to defend at all (or even lead the defence)
For me, he is definitely behind Alex G and Liam W as a full back. At 13, apparently his preferred position he is probably ahead of Loz and Nick T, (or at least will be quite soon after our coaches get hold of him) but not by a huge amount. On the wing, he is definitely behind Liam W and possibly on a par with Sean Maitland. Assuming he will be away with England when applicable, I can see our back-line (not inluding half-backs) as:
11 - Sean/ED/Lewy
12 - Brad/Nick T/Loz
13 - ED/Loz/Nick T
14 - Liam /ED/Lewy
15 - Alex G/Liam/Matt G (or Max M??)
Personally, I think the money could have been better spent elsewhere, however, I am waiting (and hoping) to proved wrong - as I usually am!!

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: Garp285 (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 16:19

Damn, I forgot Big Dunc in the centres! Adds even more weight to my thoughts regarding money being better spent elsewhere.

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21 August, 2019 16:25

Garp285 I certainly agree with money being spent better elsewhere.
I'd qualify that with saying at his very best (Lions?) he is a very exciting player with great pace and good attacking instincts. Hopefully (in a way) part of his current problem is "just" a loss of mojo because I think the team and coaches can probably turn that around quite quickly.
I'd have him behind both Lozo and Tompkins at 13 and Gallagher too at FB. It isn't that he doesn't have good qualities but I think he's currently deficient in non-negotiables of those positions; defence and for FB aerial work both in defence and attack. I just hope he really has a will to be the best he can be as those issues were ones as far back as the Lions tour and I see little sign he's addressed them.

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 22 August, 2019 09:34

Quote:
SarrieSaint
TT where will they use him then? My views are known but he has some issues as a centre too if Sarries are looking for him to defend at all (or even lead the defence)

13, but running the defence is surely beyond him!



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 22 August, 2019 09:41

Back on topic: Gauzere was OK to allow play to restart before Youngs had joined the play. They did this by amending the law, so that the ref now has to wait.


Brilliant! Too much to expect that the laws could be written properly first time sad smiley



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Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: Garp285 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 August, 2019 13:39

Quote:
TonyTaff
Back on topic: Gauzere was OK to allow play to restart before Youngs had joined the play. They did this by amending the law, so that the ref now has to wait.

Brilliant! Too much to expect that the laws could be written properly first time sad smiley
Yes, as I've said elsewhere, England's slow of thinking out-thought again, so they get the laws changed, again (Sm108) It's like Italy, all over again(Sm151)

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 22 August, 2019 16:38

Quote:
Garp285
Quote:
TonyTaff
Back on topic: Gauzere was OK to allow play to restart before Youngs had joined the play. They did this by amending the law, so that the ref now has to wait.

Brilliant! Too much to expect that the laws could be written properly first time sad smiley
Yes, as I've said elsewhere, England's slow of thinking out-thought again, so they get the laws changed, again (Sm108) It's like Italy, all over again(Sm151)

What's the Welsh for 'Déja vu'? winking smiley



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: Sara'sman (IP Logged)
Date: 29 August, 2019 16:30

Quote:
Garp285
Quote:
SarrieSaint
TT where will they use him then? My views are known but he has some issues as a centre too if Sarries are looking for him to defend at all (or even lead the defence)
For me, he is definitely behind Alex G and Liam W as a full back. At 13, apparently his preferred position he is probably ahead of Loz and Nick T, (or at least will be quite soon after our coaches get hold of him) but not by a huge amount. On the wing, he is definitely behind Liam W and possibly on a par with Sean Maitland. Assuming he will be away with England when applicable, I can see our back-line (not inluding half-backs) as:
11 - Sean/ED/Lewy
12 - Brad/Nick T/Loz
13 - ED/Loz/Nick T
14 - Liam /ED/Lewy
15 - Alex G/Liam/Matt G (or Max M??)
Personally, I think the money could have been better spent elsewhere, however, I am waiting (and hoping) to proved wrong - as I usually am!!

Whilst I share the opinion that Daly's lack of confidence under the high ball prevents him from being a top quality 15 I'd suggest he's better in both this respect and in tackling than Malins. We've been at the forefront in the development of the aerial/kicking game, a style that requires both good kickers and good chasers able to compete in the air (where Strettle and Ashton improved significantly whilst with us). Daly is an excellent kicker whether for distance, to compete or with grubbers and a good competitor in attack too (that England incident excepted).

I'd also suggest, respectfully I hope, that Garp's list (with repetitions) is the wrong way of considering our strength and needs. We need to factor in Maitland's gradual loss of pace, Lewington's difficulty in adapting to our style and to replace Strettle. For me we are better looking at:

Back3: Goode, Williams, Maitland, Daly (23), Lewington, Gallagher, Segun*
Centre: Barritt, Lozowski, Tompkins Taylor, Malins, Morris*, (Hakalo).

With Goode's ability to cover 10 I think he'll remain our big game backup there so our "Cup Final" squad would include those in bold above (part of the reason behind Malins' 1 year only extension?). Injuries, Internationals and rotation will ensure plenty of appearances for Lewington, Gallagher, Taylor and Malins, and ease the progression of Segun and Morris into the squad. They, along with those not listed (Crossdale, Obatoyinbo, Watson, Hallett) will also get chances in the Cup and A League.

Hopefully we'll see the likes of Taylor far more frequently in the coming season, though this will probably be balanced by Brad being rested more and both Tompkins and Lozowski needing greater recuperation. Finally, I'd suggest that Daly's flexibility is something that, as with Wyles, we will come to value. I think we'll see him gliding at 13 a good deal too. Welcome Elliot - I'm looking forward to watching you at AP.

Re: Wales v England pt2
Posted by: Roger G (IP Logged)
Date: 29 August, 2019 17:36

If he can stay fit and on his top form I'd say Taylor would be nailed on for our best 23.

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