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"Huge Dossier"
Posted by: Roderick Flashheart (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 15:18

Was just shown this by a colleague - From the Times. Seems that it wasn't just the work of an enterprising journo....

"Rival clubs were feeding information to Premier Rugby about Saracens’ suspected breaches of the salary cap, helping to put in place the investigation that resulted in the English and European champions being relegated.

Harlequins were one of the clubs that did their own investigations and compiled what The Times has been told was a “huge dossier”.

The information was then passed on to Andrew Rogers, the Premier Rugby (PRL) salary cap manager.
The south west London club were working on their dossier towards the end of 2018, which is when PRL began its investigation. Harlequins started searching for information through Companies House, unearthing information about the network of co-investments that Nigel Wray, the then Saracens chairman and owner, had entered into with some of his players.

Harlequins also shared details about alleged property ownership in north London and the St Albans area and about farm ownership in South Africa.

Other clubs were also passing information to Rogers, The Times understands. It was felt that his one-man department was understaffed and could do with all the help he could get.

One of the deals that PRL was advised to investigate was the move by Jim Hamilton, the Scotland lock, from Montpellier to Saracens in 2014. Hamilton chose to go to Saracens despite the interest of other English clubs.

Some of the information that the clubs passed to PRL came second-hand through player agents. At the time, Saracens had a history of cutting agents out of their players’ contract deals, which enraged the agents, who were then happy to pass on their own knowledge of how Saracens were doing their business."



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Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 15:32

"HUGE DOSSIER"?

Flasheart, is that the term you use to seduce female undergraduates? winking smiley



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Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: Roderick Flashheart (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 15:49

(Sm151)

Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: 1876-Fez (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 16:06

Do we really need another thread on the SC stuff... can't we just put it all in one... too much tapping and scrolling theses days.



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Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: daz_71 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 16:28

Harlequins started the dossier in 2018!. Remind me when did Gustard join them as DoR?

Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 16:43

Are you saying that a member of the Saracens coaching staff in 2018 knew about salary cap breaches? Hard to believe that an assistant coach/defence coach was aware but his boss wasn't

Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: wolfgangvonb77 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 16:48

I agree this should all be put into the SC folder as im scolling and its all SC related stuff.

Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: Sorry Sarrie (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 17:14

Quote:
Roderick Flashheart

One of the deals that PRL was advised to investigate was the move by Jim Hamilton, the Scotland lock, from Montpellier to Saracens in 2014. Hamilton chose to go to Saracens despite the interest of other English clubs.

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Haven't you heard DMWJ

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Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: daz_71 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 17:14

Quote:
Gray_Lensman
Are you saying that a member of the Saracens coaching staff in 2018 knew about salary cap breaches? Hard to believe that an assistant coach/defence coach was aware but his boss wasn't

It was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek but I should have showed that with an emoji I guess

Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: Darraghgirl (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 18:31

Quote:
wolfgangvonb77
I agree this should all be put into the SC folder as im scolling and its all SC related stuff.
I think you're right so it's merged

Re: "Huge Dossier"
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 18:41

Thanks for the clarification daz 71

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: mr magoo (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 10:50

How could Harlequins stoop so low? Least we know now why they call it the stoop!!

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Roderick Flashheart (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 11:37

My apologies Darraghgirl - I should have put it into the SC thread from the off.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Sarriebone (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 12:20

Here's a link to the full 103 page report if anyone has the time to read it all, I shall try to

[media-cdn.incrowdsports.com]

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 12:44

My phone has been downloading it for the last half hour!



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Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Marlow Nick (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 13:29

My hope and expectation is that a lot of the rules get tightened in the next 6 months. My suspicion is that there's a lot of borderline payments that Saracens didn't get caught for but are clearly against the spirit of the cap no matter how much bleating there is about player welfare. Brendan Venter's podcast statements make it clear that the trigger for all these support mechanisms was when a senior player came demanding a pay rise and Nigel sorted it out.

For starters how about this for a new clarification of the rules that all clubs including Saracens have to meet starting next season … 100% of all transactions between connected parties and companies wholly or partly owned by connected parties is to be considered 100% inside the cap at the gross value of the transaction. This includes co-investments, buying and selling player's company shares, dealing in image rights, publicity & appearance fees etc.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: higgy365 (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 18:54

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/01/2020 18:55 by higgy365.

Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Toga (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 21:39

Hi, new to this forum. I'm a Saracens fan thoroughly peed off with all the 'hang 'em' high types taking great joy in seeing what's happening to Saracens.

I haven't read all of this thread or the many others but does anyone know if the club/Nigel have plans to go after PwC and the law firm who gave them advice? Especially regards the Itoje image rights valuation being so out of kilter with what the SCM said they were worth.

Also, Paul Gustard... given we know Quins were the main driver behind this, putting together their dossier on Saracens, what is the general consensus on the input Gustard might have added to the inside info?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/01/2020 21:46 by Toga.

Re: Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: ukms (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 22:27

Quote:
Toga
Hi, new to this forum. I'm a Saracens fan thoroughly peed off with all the 'hang 'em' high types taking great joy in seeing what's happening to Saracens.
I haven't read all of this thread or the many others but does anyone know if the club/Nigel have plans to go after PwC and the law firm who gave them advice? Especially regards the Itoje image rights valuation being so out of kilter with what the SCM said they were worth.

Also, Paul Gustard... given we know Quins were the main driver behind this, putting together their dossier on Saracens, what is the general consensus on the input Gustard might have added to the inside info?

Does it matter ? You broke the rules and got caught eventually...... why ‘go after’ anyone ?

Does it matter that Gustard may (or may not) have lifted the lid on breaches after he left the club ? Perhaps he disagreed with what was going on but felt powerless to act whilst part of the club ... does it matter if anyone blew the whistle .... it’s quite common in the big wide world if there is wrongdoing.

Re: Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 23 January, 2020 22:45

Toga, read the report and you'll see what the difference between the two share values amounted to and why there is no point going after PWC. Particularly as Nigel Wray said in his evidence he didn't depend on it, instead using his instinct and business know-how.

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