Current Page: 18 of 18
Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 14:24

Quote:
Marlow Nick
(Itoje) accepted a salary so far below his market value that he's not even in the top ten paid locks in the league. Not the top ten players. The top ten locks.
Do you have a reference for this and could you copy it here or similar?

Cheers.

Re: Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Sarriebone (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 15:00

Quote:
Gray_Lensman
Clearly that credit system is flawed and will doubtless be part of the review, But the 'you shouldn't have so many internationals then' argument has some truth in it. Breaching the salary cap allowed the building of a squad that other clubs could not match. With a functioning cap a player like Farrell might have been deemed too expensive to keep when products from the academy who cost less started to force their way into the side. And so he would have moved to another club. That's what other clubs had to do. If the decision was made to retain Farrell within the cap then another player would have been released. You can't divorce breaching the cap from how Saracens both retained players and continued to recruit no matter the obvious issues with the credit system.

My point about the "shouldn't have the internationals" was that the above calculation can be applied to any of the top internationals, I just happened to know Faz's rumoured salary off the top of my head. I suspect the calculations can be applied to George Ford with pretty much the same numbers, I've seen £600k bandied about for GF, so assuming full credits that accounts for 13.3% of his salary, fairly sure that doesn't cover the amount of matches he missed for Leicester last season.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Marlow Nick (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 15:11

Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
Marlow Nick
(Itoje) accepted a salary so far below his market value that he's not even in the top ten paid locks in the league. Not the top ten players. The top ten locks.
Do you have a reference for this and could you copy it here or similar?

Cheers.

Quote:
Salary Cap Report
259 at paras 97 to 102 Mr Rogers explains in some detail why he considers that the employment payments made to XXXXXX were an undervalue for a player of his ability and experience

Quote:
Guardian
It is understood from multiple sources that Itoje’s salary is lower than might be expected – he is not in the top 10 of Premiership earners in his position in the second row.

Re: Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Marlow Nick (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 15:31

Quote:
Sarriebone
At this point I don't think any fan can argue the the SC regs need a serious overhall. Most of all the credits system. It doesn't seem fair that having a world class academy player playing for England so heavily punishes the team that brought them through their academy.
Ex: Saracens pay Owen Farrell a (rumoured) £750k/yr in the 2018/19 season, he played 17 matches for Saracens, 9 for England and 1 enforced rest week as he playeed more than 65% of England matches.

Saracens played 31 matches (Premiership and Europe) which means he was available for 55% of Saracens matches.
The maximum credits for Faz are capped at £80k for combined academy and England credits. So England have him for 45% of the season and yet credits only cover 10.6% of his Salary.

Without descending in to "you shouldn't have so many internationals then", does that seem fair to anyone? Where is the incentive to develop players to international standard?

One correction for you. Assuming Farrell is your marquee player then the credits you get for him are zero because he's outside the cap. One has to wonder why Saracens consider Farrell is worth £750k for only 17 matches. Personally I think they're crazy to pay him that much. He must be laughing when he gets £1M a year (£750k from Saracens plus £250k from England) for about 27 matches while other top quality fly halves are getting half that amount from their clubs. That is a choice Saracens management make.

There is of course a valid argument for the other players that are inside the cap but still market forces should apply. Eddy has called up 34 players … roughly an average of 3 per club. Saracens great academy factory have supplied 5 players. If you're asking for extra credits for the extra 2 players maybe that's reasonable but if I were you I wouldn't just ask for extra credits which give no money just permission to spend more of your own money. I'd be demanding that England pay more for players.

What I don't believe Saracens deserve extra credits for is Mako, Billy, Elliott, Liam, Sean, Rhys etc. Your management chose to headhunt these players from other clubs. You are getting credits for them. If they're not worth it them let them go back to clubs that do want them.

Re: Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Sarriebone (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 15:49

Quote:
Marlow Nick
Quote:
Sarriebone
At this point I don't think any fan can argue the the SC regs need a serious overhall. Most of all the credits system. It doesn't seem fair that having a world class academy player playing for England so heavily punishes the team that brought them through their academy.
Ex: Saracens pay Owen Farrell a (rumoured) £750k/yr in the 2018/19 season, he played 17 matches for Saracens, 9 for England and 1 enforced rest week as he playeed more than 65% of England matches.

Saracens played 31 matches (Premiership and Europe) which means he was available for 55% of Saracens matches.
The maximum credits for Faz are capped at £80k for combined academy and England credits. So England have him for 45% of the season and yet credits only cover 10.6% of his Salary.

Without descending in to "you shouldn't have so many internationals then", does that seem fair to anyone? Where is the incentive to develop players to international standard?

One correction for you. Assuming Farrell is your marquee player then the credits you get for him are zero because he's outside the cap. One has to wonder why Saracens consider Farrell is worth £750k for only 17 matches. Personally I think they're crazy to pay him that much. He must be laughing when he gets £1M a year (£750k from Saracens plus £250k from England) for about 27 matches while other top quality fly halves are getting half that amount from their clubs. That is a choice Saracens management make.

There is of course a valid argument for the other players that are inside the cap but still market forces should apply. Eddy has called up 34 players … roughly an average of 3 per club. Saracens great academy factory have supplied 5 players. If you're asking for extra credits for the extra 2 players maybe that's reasonable but if I were you I wouldn't just ask for extra credits which give no money just permission to spend more of your own money. I'd be demanding that England pay more for players.

What I don't believe Saracens deserve extra credits for is Mako, Billy, Elliott, Liam, Sean, Rhys etc. Your management chose to headhunt these players from other clubs. You are getting credits for them. If they're not worth it them let them go back to clubs that do want them.

As my subsequent post explained I chose Farrell as I happened to know his rumoured salary and because he came through the Sarries academy, no other reason.

My point is that I think clubs deserve fair compensation for the value of the players picked, i.e how much would it cost to replace said player with a similar level for the matches the player misses. I also believe team should still get full academy credits even if the player is getting England credits, which they currently don't.

As far as I am aware Saracens would get England credits for Mako, Billy and Elliott but no academy credits. As for the other I don't believe there are any credits for internationals playing for countries other than England.

Re: Hi: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Poking With Sticks (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 15:49

Quote:
Toga
I've thought for years that the RFU must laugh themselves hoarse at how cheap they get English professional rugby delivered to them on a plate.

I think we club supporters sometimes lose sight of how much the international game dwarfs ours. The total number of TV and live viewers for a whole season of Premiership rugby is less than an average single game of the 6 Nations. That's the money which keeps our game going.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Posted by: Darraghgirl (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 15:53

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