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Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Speedy-New (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 06:47

I believe the 2-year cap 'rule' has been put in place to stop clubs 'front-loading' contracts whilst in the Championship which does not have a cap

It doesn't take a finanicial genus to work out that getting International Player X in on a 3-year contract where 90% of the total salary was paid in Year 1 with minimal pay in Years 2 & 3

I do fear you may be spending more than a single year in the Championship if you can't somehow clear the decks by 30th June.
This is something I can't see how it is done unless the high earners all accept an instant pay cut of around 30% for the rest of the season.

Billy's injury on Sunday really has created an issue you could do without at this time too. I'm not sure how many clubs would now be looking to sign him with the number of arm breaks he has suffered.
I do fear for him coming back. There is no douby a weakness there and the position he plays in, and the way he plays this could easily be broken again.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: myleftboot (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 07:06

Problem is, Speedy, it's all hypothesis, none of us know how much over we are. Presumably one of our Marquee players is definitely leaving already, at the start of the season we can offload 3 players for a season under the loan scheme. That's already, with a few departures as per the normal scheme of things, getting close to the worst case overspend mentioned.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Speedy-New (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 07:33

Agree myleftboot however the cuts will need to made in this season to comply players leaving at the end of the season will not affect this seasons spend

It's a horrible place Wray has left you in. I'm not sure that there is a right answer for the club, the players, or the wider rugby community.

I despise what Wray has done to our sport but I will never blame the fans for this. You have been left picking up the pieces and fronting up to other club's fans.

The silcence from YOUR club is deafening. What they can say is limited. I accept that but they seem to be trying to avoid the situation apart for a single statement on Saturday

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Cereal Killer (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 07:43

May well be right Speedy. Have heard Venter on a couple of pod casts saying we are nowhere near the £2m mark, IF that's true we may well be able to get below by the end of the year. Another way to look at the Billy arm break it that there will be money off the salary cap as he is injured, probably until the end of the season, however we won't get any money from England credits.

I think the rules on promotion are changed quite a bit (happy to be corrected on this), would be a good idea for everybody to get what Sarries need to do to win promotion nailed down long before the season starts, so a decision will probably be made August 2021!

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Statesman (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 07:58

Quote:
Cereal Killer
Another way to look at the Billy arm break it that there will be money off the salary cap as he is injured, probably until the end of the season, however we won't get any money from England credits1!

No, you will not get Salary out of the Cap for BV - needs to be injured for the whole season.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Cereal Killer (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 08:00

Thanks for the correction, I thought it was staggered

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Speedy-New (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 08:00

I listened to Venter on the Rugby Weekly podcast last night I'm afraid he did nothing on that to help other fans view on the situation

He made a couple of comments that implicated you further and not improve matters.

I suspect you aren't near the £2 million figure - if you really are then what the hell was going on there. I do however suspect it to be around the much mentioned figures of around £1.2 million (from previous years)

How you do this without persuading players to take pay cuts is way beyond my understanding

I do think we all need a set of clear statments from both PRL and Saracens as to what the current situation is. I'm guessing these may come out later this week once all the player meetings have taken place.

As a director of a company I can't think of a worse set of meetings to have with my staff. There will be both anger and tears but most of all a questionning of what the club has done to leave them in this position.

For every Billy there are 4 or 5 players that aren't paid a lot and they really don't know what their futures now hold

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: OhMaroItoje (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 08:06

If we spend 2 years in the championship then there will be a title race in our 2nd year with a current prem side (or Newcastle)! It would be likely that whoever gets relegated next year from the prem has to potentially spend 2 years in the championship also...

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 08:09

Quote:
Speedy-New
I listened to Venter on the Rugby Weekly podcast last night I'm afraid he did nothing on that to help other fans view on the situation. He made a couple of comments that implicated you further and not improve matters.

If Brendan Venter really loves Saracens, he would show it best by refusing to comment.

What Sarries really don't need right now, is an unofficial spokesman who consistently comes across to neutral fans (fairly or unfairly) as arrogant, and lacking any sort of awareness or contrition.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: MarchingIn (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 20:29

I thought the 2 million figure was effectively the whole-season contract value you needed to cut from the salary bill before a certain date to drop the whole season cost down to £7m? I.e. you could have cut (for example) 3 players on a combined total of £1m on day1 and could then end the season under, but as you didn't and their costs are now incurred for 1/2 a season on top of the rest, you would need to cut a greater number of players to bring the season long figure back in line?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: EXDJ (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 22:14

Quote:
Rich.
Does anyone know the situation with a club needing to be under the salary cap for at least 2 seasons before being able to be promoted to the Prem? This is a 'rule' quoted on the BBC (Ugo Monye, Chris Jones) podcast and I have heard it elsewhere. If the case then, on the assumption getting under the cap for this season is not do-able, doesn't that mean at least 2 seasons in the Championship?
It seems a significant factor but is currently under the radar. Or has someone mis-read something and there is no such clear rule?

This is all a misreading of the cap regs. Any newly promoted club (like any other Prem club) has to show details of salary paid in the previous year, contracts etc and certify that it is correct. Sarries are not subject to the regs themselves while in the Championship so in theory can pay over, they just need to show the SCM how much they paid players for the year they are in there. Presumably if they show that they paid over the cap then the salary cap manager will want extra reassurance that they are now compliant.

The two years comes from a typo in clause 15 of the 19/20 regs where someone at PRL didnít put in the right years...

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: nixworld2 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 11:52

I imagine that the next thing Saracens should do is allow for the report to be published.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Marlow Nick (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 12:00

My understanding is that they are allowed to pay more whilst in the championship BUT the salary cap looks at contracts/pay averaged out over multiple years so if you pay someone a large amount whilst in the championship then you either have to let them go as you enter the premiership or their multi-year salary will be considered when reviewing the cap. For example if Maro is paid £1M in the championship and £500k in the premiership then for purposes of the cap he will be considered to be paid £750k

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Exeforever (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 12:20

that was also my understanding. Otherwise there is nothing to stop you putting a player on a three year contract paid at £2million in the first year and £50k in the second and third years thus making a mockery of the cap once the club is promoted. Therefore the absence of a cap in the championship is only of help to those clubs without the ambition to go for promotion.

The only copy of the Minimum criteria regulations that I can find stated in 2012:

"The Club seeking promotion from the Championship
must have complied with the PRL Salary Cap regulations
in the season in which promotion is earned.

An independent financial audit by the PRL Salary Cap
Auditors in relation to Salary Cap compliance may be
required."

So provided that you are compliant by July (if they use the same year start dates in the Championship) there doesn't seem to be anything financially to stop you being promoted at the end of 20/21 but you couldn't hang on to the present squad in the Championship and get promoted the next year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/01/2020 12:22 by Exeforever.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 15:04

Quote:
nixworld2
I imagine that the next thing Saracens should do is allow for the report to be published.

Don't believe everything the new PRL CEO says!



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication.


(*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 15:07

Perhaps he's made a 'mistake' ........

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Noir (IP Logged)
Date: 22 January, 2020 15:08

Our new chairman Neil Golding says in his email message to fans today:

With regards to the publication of the disciplinary panel's full report, I am surprised by the suggestion that Saracens are objecting to the publication of the report. Since my appointment on 9 January, I have spent considerable time in discussions with PRL and nobody has asked me what my position is on the matter. To confirm, we are keen for the report to be published in full and I made PRL aware of this earlier today. It will provide much needed context and clarity.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Posted by: Darraghgirl (IP Logged)
Date: 24 January, 2020 16:10

This thread is now closed. Please post all issues re salary cap/report etc on sticky thread above

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