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Mark McCall
Posted by: Saracens23 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 12:48

His interview on BT Sport then at least sounded positive. He would be the biggest loss if he went IMO. Fingers crossed he and the other coaches stay. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them went. Completely let down by the management above them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/01/2020 12:49 by Saracens23.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 12:54

Quote:
Saracens23
His interview on BT Sport then at least sounded positive. He would be the biggest loss if he went IMO. Fingers crossed he and the other coaches stay. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them went. Completely let down by the management above them.

Seems a massive assumption that the blame lies entirely with those above him.... is there any confirmation that he was not complicit?

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Saracens23 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 13:03

Thanks Alex. Any evidence he was? Everything is currently an assumption, just summising that the blame lies with the money men. He may well have been complicit, but I reserve judgement yet until we find out the scale of the deception. That ok with you if I hold that opinion?

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Vespulavulgaris (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 13:18

I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.

Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: fatheralice (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 13:33

Quote:
Saracens23
Thanks Alex. Any evidence he was? Everything is currently an assumption, just summising that the blame lies with the money men. He may well have been complicit, but I reserve judgement yet until we find out the scale of the deception. That ok with you if I hold that opinion?

http://i.imgur.com/k1Q0nxk.jpg

Obviously the rest of this Q and A the club released in November was a lie, so probably wouldn't stand up in court, but still it is not the best look for McCall......

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 13:36

Quote:
Saracens23
Thanks Alex. Any evidence he was? Everything is currently an assumption, just summising that the blame lies with the money men. He may well have been complicit, but I reserve judgement yet until we find out the scale of the deception. That ok with you if I hold that opinion?

Salty reply.

Do you think the “money men” and Director of Rugby are completely different roles? You think that the DoR would have nothing to do with budgets?

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Banzai1314 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 16:42

Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.
Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

A bit like Dai Young ruining Pests best players - imagine what he’d do with an average team... oh wait!

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Vespulavulgaris (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:02

Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.
Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

A bit like Dai Young ruining Pests best players - imagine what he’d do with an average team... oh wait!

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Westy68 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:05

Dai isn’t anywhere near as good as Mark McCall but even Dai got a bunch of good players to a final that were 7 seconds from winning. Also a semi that only lost to a bunch of cheats.

A great deal of you except the severity of your crimes but some of you are still in denial, which a lot of rugby supporters are finding hard to accept.

I should imagine some don’t really care.

Please let me know if you would not care if your team lost semis or finals due to that team cheating, pretty sure you would not be happy.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: myleftboot (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:14

Not going to take@#$%&from any Wasps fans over this. Glass houses chap.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Westy68 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:19

Very mature.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Banzai1314 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:29

Quote:
Westy68
Dai isn’t anywhere near as good as Mark McCall but even Dai got a bunch of good players to a final that were 7 seconds from winning. Also a semi that only lost to a bunch of cheats.
A great deal of you except the severity of your crimes but some of you are still in denial, which a lot of rugby supporters are finding hard to accept.

I should imagine some don’t really care.

Please let me know if you would not care if your team lost semis or finals due to that team cheating, pretty sure you would not be happy.

Westy- those memories of nearly winning must really upset you- I on the other hand have many memories ( over 23 years) to reflect back on. Were Agen any good yesterday ?

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: samgibbo (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:33

Quote:
Westy68
Very mature.

Still sulking at the stupidity of Nathan Hughes gifting Chiefs a victory in the final?

I’ll take our ‘soiled’ trophies any time over the garbage going on at the Ricoh.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Westy68 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:38

I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.

What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:44

Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.
Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

A bit like Dai Young ruining Pests best players - imagine what he’d do with an average team... oh wait!

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

This is the sad fact as a result of the “financial doping”.

I suspect that the remarkable culture Sarries fostered will have gone a long way towards their success.

I also suspect Mark McCall is a great DoR.

However, neither of those factors can be recognised in isolation from the salary cap issues, and will therefore never get the recognition that they probably deserve.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Westy68 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:46

Quote:
samgibbo
Quote:
Westy68
Very mature.

Still sulking at the stupidity of Nathan Hughes gifting Chiefs a victory in the final?

I’ll take our ‘soiled’ trophies any time over the garbage going on at the Ricoh.

I think that says it all with some of the Sarries supporters.

Don’t get upset with other rugby supporters that question that kind of attitude. Enjoy next season.

Don’t worry I don’t think wasps will be to far behind you, due to a poorly run club. Unless the 2 season law doesn’t change

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Banzai1314 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:52

Quote:
Westy68
I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.
What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

How about Bordeaux- which decade do your memories refer back to ? Niled at home - ouch !

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Vespulavulgaris (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 17:57

Quote:
AlexInSouthville
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

This is the sad fact as a result of the “financial doping”.

I suspect that the remarkable culture Sarries fostered will have gone a long way towards their success.

I also suspect Mark McCall is a great DoR.

However, neither of those factors can be recognised in isolation from the salary cap issues, and will therefore never get the recognition that they probably deserve.

And that is a crying shame. Sarries could have had a massive impact on rugby in England. McCall could well be the best coach around and we could all have improved because of him (See Gats and Edward's when they were with us). But this has destroyed any chance of that. He'll always be associated with the regime that destroyed what may possibly have been one of the greatest club setups around with systematic cheating over years.

One of the greatest potential legacies in Rugby is now one of the worst.

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Banzai1314 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 18:01

Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
AlexInSouthville
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

This is the sad fact as a result of the “financial doping”.

I suspect that the remarkable culture Sarries fostered will have gone a long way towards their success.

I also suspect Mark McCall is a great DoR.

However, neither of those factors can be recognised in isolation from the salary cap issues, and will therefore never get the recognition that they probably deserve.

And that is a crying shame. Sarries could have had a massive impact on rugby in England. McCall could well be the best coach around and we could all have improved because of him (See Gats and Edward's when they were with us). But this has destroyed any chance of that. He'll always be associated with the regime that destroyed what may possibly have been one of the greatest club setups around with systematic cheating over years.

One of the greatest potential legacies in Rugby is now one of the worst.

We have continually developed average and academy players into England and Lions players - and you don’t think that will be remembered?

Re: Mark McCall
Posted by: Vespulavulgaris (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 18:02

Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Westy68
I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.
What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

How about Bordeaux- which decade do your memories refer back to ? Niled at home - ouch !

What is your point? Us being @#$%& doesn't mean you aren't cheats. Us being nilled at home doesn't mean you haven't destroyed the value of everything you have won for years. Us paying top dollar for players who cannot perform doesn't mean you haven't destroyed the careers of many people completely needlessly. Us being in what was until recently a genuine relegation battle doesn't mean you have an inch of moral high ground to take.

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