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Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: JL904 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 00:19

Quote:
Trawling
I have read the original post and noted the content in bold type but what it really says is: 'shouldn't someone have saved us from ourselves' or possibly 'if we realised people really meant it when they said don't cheat we would have taken it more seriously'. Possibly both accurate but not particularly admirable and notable for the timing of your post.

No Trawling, it says exactly what I wrote, not what you think I'd written, or what you wish I'd written. Wasn't it clear enough that I said that it was our responsibility to not need saving from ourselves?

As for timing - when should the future governance of our game be discussed ?

Maybe Five years ago when (as our old and not missed friend SimonG19 keeps reminding everyone) the shady Chairmans Cartel accepted our hush money?

2017/18 after we won the title with half the Lions pack - when it was plain to the world apart from PRL that we were cheating and rival fans from every club were saying so ?

Or now, when the facts are leaking out bit by bit, speculation is rampant and the chance is there to make the changes needed to administer the game in a professional manner?

Seriously, if you genuinely think that PRL is fit for purpose - then please just say so, and argue your case rather than skirting the actual issue (namely PRL 's handling of the scandal) and putting words into my mouth.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: clalan (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 08:03

The premiership has always had a self interest, as relative newcomers the hoops we had to jump through to be allowed in or not fined was a joke on promotion, we had to have higher standard stadia then 30% of the current ( originals) had, which is quite a bitter pill when working on a shoestring.
As for the RFU the champagne charlie blazers canít even run their part let alone putting them as overseers of the PRL.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 08:31

Falcons fan in peace. As many of you have said, this whole thing has been handled shambolically, from the hushing-up of offences in 2015 allegedly to save the sport's reputation (when anyone could see it was doing the exact opposite), to Saracens only being punished now for offences going back to 2016-17, to a summary relegation which looks like a case of kicking you while you're down. And Tony Rowe running his mouth - of course I have no reason to believe they're doing anything wrong, but if it turns out Exeter aren't whiter than white, he's going to be mighty embarrassed.

Surely this could all have been sorted in 2017, give you guys the 35-point deduction and a fine to wreck the following season but get your squad back under the cap, with a strong warning that any further offences would prompt relegation. Why that didn't happen I don't know, maybe there were threats of legal action, hush money paid, other clubs who have broken the salary cap (I can't believe Saracens are the only ones who've ever done it) didn't want to be punished too, general shambolic admin at PRL? But whatever happened, the sport and PRL have taken a huge reputational hit that didn't really need to happen.

I don't know what the answer is, but although Saracens were the ones who cheated and have been deservedly punished, they aren't the only ones who've done wrong here.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: ComeOnSarries (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 09:40

It is patently clear that neither PRL in general or the Salary Cap Manager are fit for purpose.

Saracens were reckless in their treatment of the salary cap and a fine and 35 points deduction is the prescribed punishment. I genuinely donít think though that at this time we can have confidence that the 11 other clubs are operating within the Salary Cap as for example Saracens managed to get away with it for over 2 years and that was using very transparent arrangements with full disclosure at Companies House. Just imagine if anybody half competent tried to hide payments.

The recent developments from PRL come across as petulant and making up their rules as they go along - on what basis could they demand the return of the recent Premiership Trophies? Certainly not written in their rules as a punishment for exceeding the cap.

Rugby will survive this turbulent period but rugby administration really does need to become more professional and less big ego driven.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Roderick Flashheart (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 10:13

I agree with the sentiment of the OP - and I've learned a clear lesson here. There has been no communcation at all about this episode (saga more like) from the PRL or the club.

Into this vacuum have come the 'sources' / 'friends' / ' contacts who are tipping off the Fisslers/Andy G@&de's / RugbyPasses of this world. This has only brought confusion and a myriad of rumours that would only ever be stopped with clear, concise communication, which at this moment is still not forthcoming.

Even now, we're all watching correspondants saying 'There's more to come..', Tony Rowe suggesting there could've been worse implications than relegation if a forensic audit of the accounts took place (?) and still the powers that be remain silent.....

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Neil-H (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 10:52

Interesting post, and yes the PRL do need to look at how they have handled the whole Salary Cap scandal, as it hasn't been handled nowhere near as well as it should have been...

However as stated above the RFU are not any better than PRL and in fact imho the RFU are to blame with this situation, its not short term but goes back years.

In my opinion, when the game went professional, the RFU just sat on their @#$%& and did nothing and watched rich fans from clubs plough monies into the clubs they love to enable the clubs to embrace/survive professionalism... some clubs got brought out by some who fancied owning a club or thought there might be money in it.... the RFU should have got involved at the start, but they didn't, they did sweet FA.... they clueless and didn't know what to do.

Move forward a few years and some of the wanna be owners, pulled out and left their clubs screwed, other clubs over spending to try and compete and we lost a lot of clubs to bankruptcy, RFU didn't help out those clubs then... hence the need for salary cap and control in spending, as thought and agreed by the owners.

Now we in a situation where most of the clubs owners have ploughed millions into their clubs of their own money to keep them going...

So why if you an owner of a club, would you want to give control of players/league/competitions/anything to the RFU??? unless they buy you out.... and the RFU can not afford to and I am sure not all owners would want to sell after everything they have done for their clubs?

It wont happen!

In the grand scale of thing, the game is still in its infancy in Professionalism and like most sports it will make mistakes, this sadly being the biggest one in how it was handled imho...

As I have stated before... the PRL, RFU, RPA and now CVC all need to sit down, have a frank and open discussion about the state of the game, the monies, player welfare... they all have go hand in hand

What the solution is... I am not sure, but they between them are the controllers of the game? some ideas from me is maybe max wage cap for individual players on top of club salary cap? maximum game time for players, minimum squad size? more incentive for home grown players as 600k really isn't much now?

They have an opportunity to try to make some good come out of what has happened....

Will they take it??Ö. I doubt it LOL

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: wolfgangvonb77 (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 11:24

+1

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: beshocked (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 12:06

Why on earth do Premiership Rugby decide the best time to bring up salary caps are during world cup years? Itís the most disruptive and I still have a theory that the salary issues was leaked to the players before the RWC final.


f England had won the RWC would we talking about this? Would Saracens have been dragged over hot coals?

For many teams this has been a long time coming, gleefully waiting to stick the boot in but really they donít gain that much. It is schadenfreude.

The biggest losers in rugby are everyone except for the media.

Tigers are still poorly run, Wasps are still poorly run. Saracensí failings donít stop that.

The Bloodgate scandal was also gleefully drawn out by the media. Nothing beats a good story for the media to keep on milking.

People say that the media do it for integrity but scandal sells newspapers.

Look at Megxit Ė thatís a story thatís been done to death and really if you look at it Megan hasnít really done particularly heinous to justify the witch hunt.

Saracens deserve to be punished but where does it end?

English rugby needs to move on in a positive fashion. How can English rugby do it currently?
Premiership Rugby have poorly mismanaged this but how does one bring this out in the open in a way that is damage control?

This is what the media want. They want a story that keeps on running. Not for the good of rugby or to try and reform. Not to try and learn from the salary cap scandal.


If there was truly a plan to move on there would be serious plans put in place.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Neil-H (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 12:20

Quote:
beshocked
Why on earth do Premiership Rugby decide the best time to bring up salary caps are during world cup years? Itís the most disruptive and I still have a theory that the salary issues was leaked to the players before the RWC final..

Beshocked as many have stated here, the PRL have made a right mess of how this and salary cap has been handled and I agree with them... however... it wasn't the PRL it was the press that found this and it appears to have tried to been hushed up during the world for many reason, probably for best of England rugby team... and I agree with you, I am sure some players knew the news while in Japan.

But what where the PRL then meant to do once the press broke the story, ignore it and bury their heads in the sand again, make rugby even more of a laughing stock?

Yes rugby is the biggest loser here, but Saracens got caught cheating and sorry should be punished...

Now rugby needs to learn from the mistakes and try to move forward for the better, so at least something comes from it.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Sarriebone (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 13:44

I read a suggestion somewhere (forget where, apologies if it was by someone on here) that teams should give their salary money to an external body, RFU or other, along with player contracts, the external body then pays the players in line with their contract. that way any other financial transaction between any connected party and a player is outside the cap.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: maynas (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 15:03

Quote:
wolfgangvonb77
+1
Great points but I also doubt anything will happen

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Bedlington Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 20 January, 2020 15:41

"I genuinely donít think though that at this time we can have confidence that the 11 other clubs are operating within the Salary Cap as for example Saracens managed to get away with it for over 2 years and that was using very transparent arrangements with full disclosure at Companies House. Just imagine if anybody half competent tried to hide payments."

I would recommend you don't tar other clubs with your brush.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 10:13

The RFU would just balls things up in a different way!



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: #wolfpack (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 10:22

Quote:
Bedlington Lad
"I genuinely donít think though that at this time we can have confidence that the 11 other clubs are operating within the Salary Cap as for example Saracens managed to get away with it for over 2 years and that was using very transparent arrangements with full disclosure at Companies House. Just imagine if anybody half competent tried to hide payments."
I would recommend you don't tar other clubs with your brush.

You haven't read todays Telegraph have you?

Re: Time for the RFU to get a grip on Elite Rugby?
Posted by: Chris1850 (IP Logged)
Date: 21 January, 2020 11:53

Quote:
#wolfpack
Quote:
Bedlington Lad
"I genuinely donít think though that at this time we can have confidence that the 11 other clubs are operating within the Salary Cap as for example Saracens managed to get away with it for over 2 years and that was using very transparent arrangements with full disclosure at Companies House. Just imagine if anybody half competent tried to hide payments."
I would recommend you don't tar other clubs with your brush.

You haven't read todays Telegraph have you?

Until such time as players loan arrangements are deemed to be in contravention of the salary cap regulations, then such arrangements are above board. Of course if such arrangements are deemed to contravene the regulations then those clubs that have benefited from them, AND been over the cap as a result, deserve to face the music in the same way as Sarries. Any punishment being commensurate with the extent and time period of the contravention.

At this rate, we will have a 23 club championship whilst Newcastle will be the only club in the Prem!

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