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Tigers get tough
Posted by: Innings (IP Logged)
Date: 01 July, 2020 18:20

I don't like to see any club in dispute with their players. I don't like to see any player forced to change employers against their own wishes, nor against the wishes of the people who pay the bills. How has rugby come to this?

Manu and others told to find new employers at this stage of the year cannot be happy. If the club has failed to make the half dozen accept the case for reductions, then as employers they have to look at paying out in full on the contracts.

Will this improve the standing of rugby in general? Of Tigers in their own supporters' eyes? In the eyes of sponsors at Welford Road. This story has a very unhappy feel to it already, and has plenty of room to get worse.

The risk of rugby reverting to amateurism at all levels must be increasing.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: myleftboot (IP Logged)
Date: 01 July, 2020 18:27

Whoa, I guess you're right, legally I can't see Tigger's have a leg to stand on!

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: lechef (IP Logged)
Date: 01 July, 2020 18:35

If they don't they could be in breach of the salary cap, fined, deducted points .

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 01 July, 2020 18:56

One problem they may run up against is the same one we had when the SCM decided we were over and that is that paying off contracts to get under the cap (in Tigers case possibly settling contracts after players claimed their contracts were altered/terminated illegally) counts against the cap. So unless those players choose to walk away from their contracts Tigers could owe 100Ks against the cap for players who won't play for them. Very tough.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 01 July, 2020 19:42

Gossip is Genge and Ford are staying but the others are gone
[www.msn.com]

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 01 July, 2020 20:30

Tuilagi not showing much gratitude to Leicester for paying him for several years of inactivity. Be astounded if anyone in England goes anywhere near him.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: Barty II (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 07:16

On the flipside, ignoring whatever it is that got them to this point, it does seem a little off that a player earning half a million won't take a cut when its reported 31 members of staff have to be made redundant

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: myleftboot (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 07:59

Quote:
The Bard
Tuilagi not showing much gratitude to Leicester for paying him for several years of inactivity. Be astounded if anyone in England goes anywhere near him.
That's one take, another is that they already agreed a large salary reduction, 25%, then their employer turns around and wants to help themselves to even more? My company have taken a big hit financially, I ain't taking no cut in pay!!

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: Innings (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 11:16

This is actually very much like British industry, perhaps global industry, writ small. Theories of 'efficient' balance sheet management have led to using debt to grow businesses of all kinds, with actual cash investment by the shareholders treated as being 'inefficient.' To build reserves against a rainy day that might never happen is 'inefficient', especially when money is cheap (low interest rates) and banks are always willing to lend more.

It is an old saying: When recession comes, it's the debt that gets you.

Rugby has become a professional business with amateur finances, amateur business plans, amateur governance and grossly over-leveraged balance sheets at all levels, from international unions to local clubs. In the end debt has to be repaid, and the day of reckoning arrives when you can neither repay the debts nor persuade a new lender to take them on from the one who wants repayment. Just ask the RFU about how they plan to cope with their balance sheet, and the answer is that there are two plans. One is to cut all the assistance to the grass roots that they claim to be a core part of their reason for existence. The other is to 'sweat the assets harder'. In the case of sport, that of course is literal, rather than the usual metaphorical use of the word sweat.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: Duncan96 (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 16:31

Tuilagi has 2 choices. Not play and collect the salary Leicester contractually owe him or go somewhere like Racing. If he goes and gets paid more than Leicester pay him I dont think he has a claim because hes not worse off.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: myleftboot (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 18:29

It will be an interesting one if it ever reaches court (which I doubt...) One wonders what his injury record would be under a more cohesive coaching unit

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 19:28

Not sure when you look at say Billy and Max Malins you could make a case wed have been any luckier with him.
Its head in the sand to think you are immune from your employers financial problems just because you have a contract.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: nedrichards (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 19:48

You're not, but the onus is on them to offer a meaningful restructuring. E.g push. extra guaranteed years well past his prime baseball style. Some teams there are still taking salary cap charges for players who retired more than ten years ago! Maybe even an offer of swapping the debt for equity, some kind of ability to participate in the upside. There was no need to create an adverserial situation.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 22:42

Rugby is in the leisure sector. Look at the decimation of the dining and airline businesses. Times are very hard and will remain so for years, earnings are inevitably going to have to take a hit if clubs are to survive.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: myleftboot (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 07:11

If Manu could only get a contract of, say, 50p a week, he could probably get Tigers to make up the shortfall...He will end up at Sale I reckon

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: nedrichards (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 11:19

The Bard: I don't disagree with you, but those business' which say "we will sack you unless you agree to be worse off, oh, and we're going to keep on making this threat again and again to salami slice away your rights and compensation" are going to get a very different reaction from those that say "we're all in this together, we value you as a person and want you to be involved in this business/club for the rest of your life, let's work on a way that we can defer some of these obligations with a structure that makes it up to you later or aligns your incentives to participate in any recovery".

Burning your bridges with your game changing player, whose family connections have given your club such a recruitment advantage and who will remain iconic for supporters for years to come just seems incredibly short sighted. As Leicester you want Manu doing corporate entertainment for you in 20 years time reminding people that you're the biggest club in England and always have been - like seeing Tony Underwood or Jonno does today. And more urgently, in a Sarries free season your club would have been relegated and have *even less* revenue, if you want to stay up next year then you're going to need some players and neither they or their agents are happy with you right now.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 11:32

I noted during the interview with their CEO(?) that she was saying they'd offered educational and work experience type incentives to ready the players for after rugby. You would have hoped that these types of schemes were already in place, as they are with the much criticised Saracens.

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: JL904 (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 12:05

Quote:
The Bard
Tuilagi not showing much gratitude to Leicester for paying him for several years of inactivity. Be astounded if anyone in England goes anywhere near him.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair, Bard. Whilst it's true that Tiggers looked after him through years of injury, one could argue that he repaid some of that faith by turning down a 3 year 2.5M contract offer from Racing 92 when he was fit again.



Wars begin when you will, but they do not end when you please - Niccolo Machiavelli

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 13:08

And not forgetting the time he was in trouble with the law either. I guess his England ambitions would have been a factor in turning down Racing

Re: Tigers get tough
Posted by: The Substandard Biscuit (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 18:03

This dispute is a disgrace. Tuilagi is thick, but sensible enough to know the way he plays the game that the next charge into a defensive line could be his last. He was paid because he's great at that, via a legally binding contract. It's simple, Tigers will have to pay.

If however he disappear off to Racing, Montpellier, Toulon or Clermont, for money the situation gets hazier, but it would be an entirely reasonable thing for Manu to do. But one thing is clear, he wouldn't be able to play for England while in France, and the RFU have already confirmed this. If he went, Eddie would be seriously @#$%& off.
Interesting then if a couple of English Saracens decided to join him over there for a year? We know Racing were keen to get Maro 1mil for a year there!); nothing has been said formally yet about Mako or Owen and what they are doing next year (even though it's unlikely - I hope) ? That would take 4 of the starting England XV away, and might force the RFU's hand to change the rather stupid rule that foreign based players are disqualified for playing for England, in these rather strange times, which frankly are 'exceptional'.

The question is: Will the stuffed shirted old farts change their minds ?

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