Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 11:01

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

... to take outcomes into account.

He also wants the victim to testify! Yet regrets the unseemly arguments re Kitchener's sanction. No chance of unseemliness with this proposal.

He also thinks the former player on the panel feels emasculated. Really? Why take the rôle then? If Leon Lloyd isn't up to it, then get Martin Johnson in!



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Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: jonnybrowne (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 12:21

Quote:
TonyTaff
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/09/10/owen-farrell-verdict-shines-light-rugbys-farcical-broken-disciplinary/
... to take outcomes into account.

He also wants the victim to testify! Yet regrets the unseemly arguments re Kitchener's sanction. No chance of unseemliness with this proposal.

He also thinks the former player on the panel feels emasculated. Really? Why take the rôle then? If Leon Lloyd isn't up to it, then get
Martin Johnson in!

Can’t see the full article unfortunately, subscriber only.

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: TOKS (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 12:24

Jonny, you can see enough to see who has written it, so that should be sufficient.

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: beshocked (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 13:08

I am sure Austin Healey wanted the rules changed when Manu punched Ashton.....

No wait a minute there's an article with Healey defending Manu.

Manu only missed the final I believe and some inconsequential Churchill cup matches.

Many players get their sentences halved. I don't think anyone should but I think it's unfair for Healey to single out Farrell.

Why is it a farce now? It's been going on for years. I believe in harsher bans all round but if other players are allowed to half their sentences then so should Farrell.

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: Squawker2 (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 13:36

I don't think most areas require harsher bans. Some do - the direct attack rules (punching, stamping etc) in particular seem wildly out of whack with high tackles.

I mean, at the moment, it would be lead to lower disciplinary sanctions for players to lead with a first than risk tackling them in the neck.

Consistency would also be nicer, all across the board.

It would actually make sense to lower the base rate of a number of offences, then heavily trim the adjusted time for good behaviour etc.

I can only hope that one day Wayne Barnes will decide he wants some more rugby involvement, and suffers a bout of masochism, and can be lured into taking over the citing commission.



-----------------------------------------------------

Stuart Barnes is a Cock Womble

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: jonnybrowne (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 16:20

Quote:
TOKS
Jonny, you can see enough to see who has written it, so that should be sufficient.

I know, I know - I was curious despite myself to see what he’d written, and yes, I really should know better ...

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: PhillFez (IP Logged)
Date: 11 September, 2020 20:48

Farrel’s citing reminded me of the citing of Martin Johnson for punching our Aussie hooker Russel at VR. The ref sent both off with a yellow for ‘fighting’ when Johnson’s unprovoked attack split Russel’s cheek. As he was England captain he got a ban just short of the first six nations game. Ho hum, balanced punishment.
As it happened MJ knocked on the French kick off and the scrum led to a score and England lost.

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2020 13:37

Quote:
jonnybrowne
Quote:
TOKS
Jonny, you can see enough to see who has written it, so that should be sufficient.

I know, I know - I was curious despite myself to see what he’d written, and yes, I really should know better ...

You can register for free and get a few free articles ... assuming your blood pressure can cope with a whole article from him!



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Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: jonnybrowne (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2020 19:49

Quote:
TonyTaff
Quote:
jonnybrowne
Quote:
TOKS
Jonny, you can see enough to see who has written it, so that should be sufficient.

I know, I know - I was curious despite myself to see what he’d written, and yes, I really should know better ...

You can register for free and get a few free articles ... assuming your blood pressure can cope with a whole article from him!

Hahaha. Thankfully the tablets keep the old blood pressure down - but I can see the benefits in terms of a decent night’s sleep.

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: hertsman (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 11:18

Ah Healey... I thought you meant Danny Care

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: Innings (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 11:49

In Civil Service speak, most of these comments are called 'playing the man, not the ball.' It's a tactic applied when the argument is sound but disagreeable to the hearer. IMHO, the core argument is actually sound; the disciplinary process is utterly unfit for its purpose and needs root and branch reform. For demeanour at the hearing, add six weeks for eating biscuits, subtract six weeks for looking apologetic. For being Chris Ashton, add six weeks. For pleading guilty, subtract half the tariff, for pleading not guilty, apply the full tariff.

For the system to work, and I argue that it does not work with either clarity or just outcome, there has to be a complete reconstruction of form and function. Whether it takes Austin Healey, Brian Moore or Mother Theresa to make that happen, the sponsorship is irrelevant if it causes debate that leads to a better process.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Rentagob wants the disciplinary rules changed ...
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 14:37

Attempting to play the ball, rather than the man:

The suggestion that clinical outcomes should be relevant to the sanction is invalid. The behaviour of the miscreant is relevant; it is unnecessary to introduce an often arbitrary element of how the victim 'took it'.



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