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Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 10:57

Quote:
gaz59
All this based on an article in what reputable journal exactly?

Which are the "reputable" journals you wish to reference?
Only those that conform to D-Notice legislation?



Yanis explains what would happen 3 years ago.



"“It’s yours against mine.” That’s how Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany’s finance minister, put it to me during our first encounter in early 2015 – referring to our respective democratic mandates.

A little more than two years later, Theresa May is trying to arm herself with a clear democratic mandate ostensibly to bolster her negotiating position with European powerbrokers – including Schäuble – and to deliver the optimal Brexit deal.

Already, the Brussels-based commentariat are drawing parallels: “Brits fallen for Greek fallacy that domestic vote gives you stronger position in Brussels. Other countries have voters too,” tweeted Duncan Robinson, Brussels correspondent of the Financial Times. “Yep,” tweeted back Miguel Roig, the Brussels correspondent of Spanish financial daily Expansión. “Varoufakis’ big miscalculation was to think that he was the only one in the Eurogroup with a democratic mandate.”

In truth, Brussels is a democracy-free zone. From the EU’s inception in 1950, Brussels became the seat of a bureaucracy administering a heavy industry cartel, vested with unprecedented law-making capacities. Even though the EU has evolved a great deal since, and acquired many of the trappings of a confederacy, it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated. The whole point of the EU’s inter-governmental organisation was to ensure that only by a rare historical accident would democratic mandates converge and, when they did, never restrain the exercise of power in Brussels."



What's Bruxelles priorities during the Virus Crisis??? Help member states in the worst situations?

No

EU fines Ital €8 million + daily interest of €80,000

Continue legal agtions against member states for NOT accepting their €6000/head bribes (who's money did they use)?

Good stuff eh?

(Sm3)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2020 11:06 by Bod.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 11:14

Those articles are clearly written to appeal to your partiality and in any case are quite different, in substance if not rhetoric, from :

"You mean like Germany has abandoned the Southern Europe members to be an economic wasteland as a result of the virus?"

They are just signing a blank cheque for them. That's not the same thing.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 11:27

Quote:
DanWiley
Has it?

Oh yes, and with a vengeance

Italy recognises it's on its own

And its the poorer nations and NATO helping most although surprisingly this isn't reported by MSM - why?............where's the EU help???

Cuba sends medical teams to Italy

Turkey responds to NATO requests for assistance for Spain and Italy


Were you aware of this Dan?
It's really very strange don't you think??

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 11:41

No really, its the sort of nonsense you'll lap up and ask for more of it seems. Have a little think about it and think whether you really believe this will end as you suggest or you just want it to.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 11:53

https://media.giphy.com/media/TGvHZanK0Y8poe2lnA/giphy.gif

Come on Dan, all that's stated in the articles is the bleeding obvious - and whether you like it or not, is the truth, but obviously one that doesn't align with your philosophies,creeds and doctrines.

Emperor's clothes?

Onwards and upwards eh?

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 12:04

"the EU has erupted into open warfare between north and south."

Is that "the bleeding obvious" when the article basically goes on to say "Germany doesn't think issuing bonds to Italy and Spain is the way to go."

It's inflammatory journalism and you've bought right into it.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 13:08

Germany decides as always was, is and will be.

Just follow the money.

It's explicit and clear commentary .

That's my take.

(Sm3)

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 13:09

To be fair Dan the Italians were pretty Peed off:

On Tuesday, a group of 12 Italian politicians published an open letter in Germany’s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper calling the Netherlands’ position devoid of “ethics and solidarity” and accusing the country of taking corporate tax revenue from other EU member states.

[www.ft.com]

Germany and the Netherlands have sought to clarify / amend / soften their position since that response however.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 13:21

Quote:
Bod
Germany decides as always was, is and will be.
Just follow the money.

It's explicit and clear commentary .

That's my take.

(Sm3)

Well, they probably think bankrolling it needs to amount to something.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 06 April, 2020 13:38

Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
Bod
Germany decides as always was, is and will be.
Just follow the money.

It's explicit and clear commentary .

That's my take.

(Sm3)

Well, they probably think bankrolling it needs to amount to something.


Aye John - great philanthropy


The German Euro swindle

"Despite the recent rise of populist, anti-EU sentiment in Germany, Berlin seems determined to fight hard for the European Union and the common currency, the euro. Much high principle no doubt lies behind this commitment, but so also does much self interest. The German economy, most especially the German elite, has done very well for itself because of the union and the euro, not a little of it at the expense of the rest of Europe. One need not be a cynic to suspect that such less principled but nonetheless compelling motivations also direct Berlin’s commitment.

The euro was supposed to have had a universally helpful impact on all of Europe. Its designers claimed that it would give the EU stature to rival other powerful economies, the United States, Japan, and China in particular. All Europe would benefit, they said, from the trade increases that would follow as people and business shed worry over currency fluctuations, while the absence of currency risk would keep interest rates low, giving especially smaller, weaker members the advantage of cheaper credit that would encourage more investment and economic development. The trade and growth would deepen economic integration, give residents of the union a greater diversity of goods and services, and create a more unified and resilient European economy. It has of course not turned out this way. Instead the euro has locked in distorting and inequitable currency mispricings, giving some in the common currency, most notably Germany, great advantages over others.

These problems, in no small part, developed from the enthusiasm that accompanied the run up to the euro. High hopes for weaker economies, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Italy, bid up the values of their individual national currencies so that they joined the euro at values far above those supportable by their economic fundamentals. The overpricing gave these governments and their populations an inflated sense of their global economic purchasing power, encouraging spending and borrowing beyond their ability to support such behavior. Meanwhile, the inflated currency values put their producers at a competitive disadvantage. With separate currencies, reality would eventually have forced a depreciation that would have rectified both problems. But the euro, once established, locked in the mispricing.

For Germany, the opposite set of conditions prevailed. At the time, it was still suffering from the economic difficulties of its reunification. Its deutschemark was weaker than its economic fundamentals could otherwise have supported. Once that value was locked into the euro, German consumers acquired a deflated sense of their global buying power and so proceeded more cautiously than others in Europe. German producers meanwhile discovered that the euro had effectively locked in pricing for their goods and services well below levels with which they otherwise could have coped. International Monetary Fund (IMF) data suggests that at the euro’s inception, this currency distortion gave German industry a 6% competitive advantage compared with the country’s economic fundamentals......."

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 08:23

It seems almost funny now that there were so many arguments over the £30bn brexit Bill. Cv-19 is estimated to be costing the UK £2.5bn a day at the moment which for me puts that number into perspective. The bill to Furlough is over £40bn. I know it’s not either / or but the numbers lose their meaning after a while.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 09:45

I've said for a long time £30b was never a huge amount of money in governmental terms. 1/4er of our annual NHS bill, not easy to find maybe, but clearly doable. IF you really want brexit, we should have paid it, we're going to end up paying practically all of it anyway, and got a good deal.

But equally, we got back FAR more than the £8billion we put in, Germany isn't the only country that benefits. But nor is it a zero-sum thing, countries at the other economic end also gain from membership, everyone wins from that closer cooperation. You can't have it both ways either the nasty rich northern countries are exploiting the unfortunate, poorer ones or the noble, affluent northern are subsidizing the lazy, work-shy southern countries. Or, perhaps I'm saying, you can have it both ways, its just an overall benefit to both.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 11:20

Not only do we still need romanians to pick fruit, we now need to charter flights for them

[www.theguardian.com]

(Sm22)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2020 11:31 by woodpecker.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 11:35

Quote:
woodpecker
Not only do we still need romanians to pick fruit, we now need to charter flights for them
[www.theguardian.com]

(Sm22)

Yes I though that this was pretty odd, when there must be loads of people in that area who are out of work at the moment.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 11:41

Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
Not only do we still need romanians to pick fruit, we now need to charter flights for them
[www.theguardian.com]

(Sm22)

Yes I though that this was pretty odd, when there must be loads of people in that area who are out of work at the moment.

Just listening to JOB on LBC.

Apparently its becuase its temporary, you really need to live on site (which you pay for (rural) i.e. away from your home, and its piece work, so its hard to earn decent money unless youve done it for a long time. 35,000 uk intially applied.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 11:45

I know a few people who have put themselves up for picking...
Will have to check their stories as to how they get on.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 12:02

Quote:
woodpecker
Not only do we still need romanians to pick fruit, we now need to charter flights for them
[www.theguardian.com]

(Sm22)

Seems like a lot of Brits really are lazy then.

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 14:00

Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
Not only do we still need romanians to pick fruit, we now need to charter flights for them
[www.theguardian.com]

(Sm22)

Yes I though that this was pretty odd, when there must be loads of people in that area who are out of work at the moment.

Just listening to JOB on LBC.

Apparently its becuase its temporary, you really need to live on site (which you pay for (rural) i.e. away from your home, and its piece work, so its hard to earn decent money unless youve done it for a long time. 35,000 uk intially applied.

Farmers strongly lobbying for EU migration, no desire to increase pay. Offering increased pay frowned upon. Not really affordable for those with any infrastructure to pay for (i.e. house) or seeking to replace lost earnings. Definitely the case in my home region (though my parents farm is livestock).

So we will bus in migrants, yet again, and the same people will claim it has no impact on wages, yet again.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 15:11

Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
Not only do we still need romanians to pick fruit, we now need to charter flights for them
[www.theguardian.com]

(Sm22)

Yes I though that this was pretty odd, when there must be loads of people in that area who are out of work at the moment.

Just listening to JOB on LBC.

Apparently its becuase its temporary, you really need to live on site (which you pay for (rural) i.e. away from your home, and its piece work, so its hard to earn decent money unless youve done it for a long time. 35,000 uk intially applied.

JOB was stellar in his Vets' role in the SpecSavers advert with the furry hat/cat before Christmas; quite a metaphor for his outlooks and POVs.

Minimum Wage for Agricultural Workers in UK found here

Agricultural Wage Board disbanded in 2013 - Thanks Dave/Nick




Minimum wage in Romania anyone????
























€450/month now
€145/month 2010
€ 75/month 2004


Reference here

Re: OT/ Brexit
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2020 17:01

Nothing will change until us Brits realise that food costs money. It is too cheap and a far smaller proportion of our weekly expenditure than it was decades ago. Cheap food means low wages for agricultural staff (all round the world).

Supermarkets drive down prices by playing farmer against farmer and then reap the profits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2020 17:03 by hemington.

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