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Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Boldangrey (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 06:50

We the Committee of Old Prostates RFC find the above picture deeply offensive and respectfully request that the moderators remove it.

Effective training can only be done on licensed premises, ideally a bar on Mount Olympus.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 07:46

[www.bbc.co.uk]

England "didn't even notice" the effects of altitude...

"It didn't affect them - it didn't even register," Gustard told BBC Sport.

"We made choices before we came out here about what was appropriate to prepare ourselves for two Tests at altitude," he added.

"We spoke to a lot of Super Rugby coaches that come over here, and we put that all into our thinking.

"Most of the players and most of the coaches all agree there is nothing wrong with being at sea-level. We are 100% happy [with the decision]."

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Bathovalballer (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 08:06

Yeah sure the players and others happier as the beaches are better near Durban than in Joberg!
Little safer to go out as well. Sounds like player pandering to me, much like Bath and its well known Spa facilities.

I once played rugby on a hillside in South Wales and the altitude must have effected us coming from a ground about 150 feet above sea level, as we got run off our feet by these nippy little sure footed Welshman and got hammered. All down to playing at altitude IMV.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Boldangrey (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 08:30

This is from the Guardian. The Independent, Telegraph, Mirror and Sky Sports all carry the same article.

Despite the second Test in Bloemfontein on Saturday also taking place on the Highveld, England will again train this week beside the Indian Ocean in Durban and the Springbok scrum-half Faf de Klerk, the man of the match, says he and his team-mates always felt England would struggle at Ellis Park.

We knew they were based in Durban and coming from the UK the altitude was going to be a factor,” said De Klerk,... “That was our plan from the start but we didn’t have the ball in the first 20 minutes..... I think the altitude plays a part, as do the fans and the fact it is Ellis Park. ……

The majority of visiting teams either base themselves at altitude for at least a week before a big game or arrive within 24 hours of kick-off. England, in contrast, flew up on Thursday and were unable to sustain an impressive start which gave them a 24-3 lead after 20 minutes. Jamie George conceded the unfamiliarity of playing at altitude had been a factor. “It was tough after 20 minutes,” the hooker said. “It really did kick in ... after 20-30 minutes it definitely hit us quite hard. We probably need to get better at that….’

Eddie said.

“We don’t think the benefits of staying at altitude are massive enough,”

I thought winning international sports was all about small margins (3 points)? Obviously Gustard didn’t speak to George.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 08:44

Yep, I think that its very clear that altitude either was, or was not an issue. I would say that for the second test, altitude either will, or will not be an issue...Just call me Mystic Meg.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 09:20

I still think the point was to push ourselves in these games, to practise playing in conditions that are beyond what they can expect, so that when they play in expected conditions they find it easier than a team that has not done that.

Had they prepared for these conditions, by definition, then they wouldn't have been pushing themselves to the same degree and it would have defeated the point.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Boldangrey (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 12:38

Quote:
DanWiley
I still think the point was to push ourselves in these games, to practise playing in conditions that are beyond what they can expect, so that when they play in expected conditions they find it easier than a team that has not done that.
Had they prepared for these conditions, by definition, then they wouldn't have been pushing themselves to the same degree and it would have defeated the point.

In which case they should have trained in the Arctic and worn swim suits and wellies.

That's about as unlike the conditions they might expect.

You take all factors into consideration and train hard to WIN.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Which Tyler (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 13:24

Quote:
Boldangrey
In which case they should have trained in the Arctic and worn swim suits and wellies.
That's about as unlike the conditions they might expect.

You take all factors into consideration and train hard to WIN at the RWC in 16 months.
FTFY
Given that we know for a fact (or as close as it's possible to get) that this is the target.
Not only has Eddie said precisely this, repeatedly; but all of his actions over the last 10 months confirm it. Everything that people are criticising Eddie for makes perfect sense if viewed through this lense - which relegates all the criticisms down to "I disagree that Eddie SHOULD be targetting the RWC" or possibly "I don't think Eddie's going the right way about targetting the RWC"



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 13:27 by Which Tyler.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 13:54

"In which case they should have trained in the Arctic and worn swim suits and wellies.
That's about as unlike the conditions they might expect. "

Are there any teams that we could play that are well adjusted to those conditions? Playing a team that will suffer equally as badly from the condition in the arctic wouldn't help, it would just be a level playing field. No I think playing SA in SA puts the England team about as far outside their comfort zone as a top level test could as far as I can see.

"You take all factors into consideration and train hard to WIN."

I'm suggesting they are, just the thing they are trying to win isn't necessarily this series (rightly or wrongly). This series is just preparation for the WC.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 14:26

He banged on at some length about how it would make history etc etc if they won he series and how important it was / is?

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 14:44

Don't listen to Eddie!

I cannot emphasise that enough. I can't think of one thing he's said that can be taken at face value.

However, you can see from the reaction on here how bad it would have been if he had said "Sure I'd take a win if it was there, but really these tests are just a means to an end, no more important than that, you'll have forgotten about them in a few months."

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 15:00

He could have got away with it if he had said:

'OK, all the Lions are knackered, so I'm not taking them mate, and this is a last opportunity some some of these cobbers to push for places so I'm going to take some of the form players to see how they get on, hopefully they won't make galahs out of themselves'.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 15:36

I'd have taken the likes of Itoje, Farrell, Vunipolas, Robshaw. They need to be involved in this tour because they will be the core of the World Cup squad - but they should have been there for conditioning - whether that means training full on or lightly; to set standards and to pass on experience; maybe to sit on the bench in Test matches, or maybe make it clear they would start one Test each.

Then i'd have selected a team - as far as possible - made up of genuine candidates who had relatively light workloads - whether that was due to injury or suspension. I appreciate that it can be hard to judge what to make of an inexperienced/fringe player if they only get to play in a weakened team in a home game. But I think - on tour, and across 3 matches - you'd learn plenty about anyone.

And besides - Eddie's been in post 3 years now. He really ought to know at least 30 of his World Cup squad. He had enough credit in the bank to lose these 3 Tests if he'd said he was playing for development not results.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 15:56

"He could have got away with it if he had said: ..."

But that's not what he's doing. Even he can't say "I'm not going to take the Lions" and then take the Lions*. It seems to me his intention is was to take and drive the lions along with everyone else.

* I think, I'd only be moderately surprised.

Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 18:13

Quote:
DanWiley
Don't listen to Eddie!"

It's hard not to hear from him if you are a fan of the game and read newspapers/forums/ websites but I am tired of listening/reading/watching what he has to say. The Shields pick did for me then to see him play in the 2nd row after 30mins or so on Saturday left me dumbfounded.

I will watch the remaining tests but frankly am much more interested in Bath now. I hope Beno copes well with his terrible injury setback; I hope to see DA back in Bath colours but that seems unlikely now; I hope we have a good pre-season and TB et al revise their game plan and get more out of the talented squad we have in BB&W. I hope BC keeps the pressure on EJ directly or indirectly and finally, I want Munster in our HC group please...



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Re: England Team First SA Test
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 20:10

"It's hard not to hear from him if you are a fan of the game "

Yeah, but just let it go, like certain posters on here, probably including myself.

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