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England WC Training Squad
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 12:33

England squad announced
Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 10 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 58 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 71 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 59 caps)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps)
Brad Shields (Wasps, 8 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
Jack Singleton (Saracens, uncapped)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 9 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 41 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps)
Mark Wilson (Sale Sharks, 13 caps)

Backs
Danny Cipriani (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 30 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 40 caps)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps)
Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps)
Ben Spencer (Saracens, 3 caps)
Ben Teo (unattached, 18 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 32 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)

In camp for rehabilitation
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps)

Well done the 6 who made it!



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 12:35 by BathMatt53.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 12:50

Tough on Tom Dunn.

IMHO he is every bit as good as Singleton (& better in the loose). Maybe bias of course - or is it just one of 'Eddie's Things'?


PG

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 12:56

Unlucky Tom Dunn, especially after his performance in the dodgeball.

Bravo RMcC. He must be really impressing. An amazing achievement.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:11

Selection of Heinz over Care is just pathetic. Eddie sacrificing 70-odd cap experience rather than admit hes made a ridiculous stuff up on the 9 front for two years. Not much else to argue with, though im surprised hes jettisoned Hartley.

Great news for our prospects that Marler is back in the fold too. It's effectively a 38-man squad now with the 3 x rehabs, so 7 to cut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 13:18 by Optimist.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: sid the seagull (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:18

So a question for the experts: how indicative is this of the final squad?
Are there any outside this lot expected to come in?

PECK

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:22

Plenty of time to get injured (particulalrly with Eddie at the helm).

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: sid the seagull (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:24

Other than that?

HOP

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:25

Quote:
sid the seagull
So a question for the experts: how indicative is this of the final squad?
Are there any outside this lot expected to come in?

PECK

It's effectively 38 names - 21 forwards and 17 backs - so it would be very surprising if anyone else is genuinely in the frame. Care/Robshaw/Hughes/Hartley/Brown would, I guess, be on the reserve list in that they could slip fairly seamlessly in without too much pre-tournament camping.

16/15 split in the end or 17/14?

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:25

Agree Opti. Although I do rate Heinz, Danny Care has played brilliantly this season and is the most exciting 9 England has. Ben Youngs hasn't really stood out since he starred against Australia a few years ago has he? Out of that lot I would start Spencer mind you.

Dombrandt missing out for Ludlam seems a bit odd as well, but I guess its all about who has looked good in the training camp thus far. With only 2 quins players in the squad, it does look as if Eddie isn't a fan (no Brown, Smith or Robshaw, not that they are a surprise).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 13:30 by BathMatt53.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 13:40

Agree about Spencer - I think he's going to leapfrog Youngs - just such a good athlete. I think both Dombrandt and Ludlow are just there for the next WC, which is one of Eddie's better points, that he'll have quite a few players who are familiar with the environment to step seamlessly into the boots of those that may retire after this WC.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: sid the seagull (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 14:17

Well Im most pleased to see Cips there. If the formula is 17 down to 14 as Opti suggests
then considering the names on this list he has a good chance of going.

FLAP

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 14:21

Also just realised that Piers Francis is there and Alex Lozowski isn't? Crazy IMO given how well Lozowski performed this season and particularly in the big games.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 14:36

Eddie's take on the old boxing saw: 'I'll take a good big 'un over a good little 'un', is, 'I'll take a mediocre southern hemisphere 'un over literally any northern hemisphere 'un''.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 15:16

He's consistently included Francis in squads but only capped him occasionally.

Lozowski seems to have paid for England's lacklustre showing against Japan (like Mercer).

PG

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 15:26

Good squad, well done Eddie. There aren't many surprises, which is a good thing.

[quote Optimist]Eddie sacrificing 70-odd cap experience rather than admit hes made a ridiculous stuff up on the 9 front for two years.

Erm, picking Care would be him not able to admit he made a mistake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 15:27 by ballsout.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 15:29

Piers Francis has actually had a pretty good season for Saints this year and it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s (his previous England performances notwithstanding). He has to be a likely contender for getting cut from the squad though.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 15:43

Quote:
hasta
Piers Francis has actually had a pretty good season for Saints this year and it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s (his previous England performances notwithstanding). He has to be a likely contender for getting cut from the squad though.

He isn't a bad player, but Lozowski was busy pulling up trees in a number of impressive performances for the league and euro champs (in multiple positions). Each to their own but I would have taken him - even if it would have meant that 8, 9, 10 and 12 were Saracens!



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 16:03

Quote:
hasta
it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s

...not with 12s who actually stay fit for more than a match or two anyway. If Eddie gave up on the 'must have a bosher' at 12 strategy, he'd have 5 pretty good options in Loz, Piers, Slade, Faz and Devoto, and so much less chance of having to rebalance the side at the last minute when the inevitable Tuilagi/Teo injuries occur.

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 17:29

Quote:
sid the seagull
Well Im most pleased to see Cips there. If the formula is 17 down to 14 as Opti suggests
then considering the names on this list he has a good chance of going.

FLAP

I sincerely hope so and he could do a great job at 10, a good job at 12 and fill in at 15 if needed.

I would be surprised if our R McC makes the cut but his inclusion here will do wonders for his confidence and hopefully motivate him to keep improving. I echo the musings of others above re Dunn's exclusion...



Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

Re: England WC Training Squad
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04 July, 2019 22:53

Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
hasta
it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s

...not with 12s who actually stay fit for more than a match or two anyway. If Eddie gave up on the 'must have a bosher' at 12 strategy, he'd have 5 pretty good options in Loz, Piers, Slade, Faz and Devoto, and so much less chance of having to rebalance the side at the last minute when the inevitable Tuilagi/Teo injuries occur.

I broadly agree Opti, but Slade and Loz have been much better playing at 13 with a bosher at 13...

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