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Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: Bathoutsider (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:02

[www.rugbypass.com]

Likely? Unlikely? Discuss....

Edited title



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/01/2020 21:22 by Bathoutsider.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:07

Except when they win multiple titles.
Unlikely, sadly i feel...its the hope that'll kill you

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:30

It says that players are looking for new clubs but they will be in a real catch 22. Which English clubs can afford to drop £1m on Itoje at this stage of the season when most plans will already be in place and they canít be a marquee? Given that so many of them are England Internationals how many are going to leave the country to find the money in Japan or France but forgo their England ambitions?

If itís true there could be carnage.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:36

Quote:
BathMatt53
It says that players are looking for new clubs but they will be in a real catch 22. Which English clubs can afford to drop £1m on Itoje at this stage of the season when most plans will already be in place and they canít be a marquee? Given that so many of them are England Internationals how many are going to leave the country to find the money in Japan or France but forgo their England ambitions?
If itís true there could be carnage.

Yep, utter chaos. No way their players could be accomodated within other prem squads at this stage.

So angry with the damage they are doing to english club and national rugby. Still think its absurd they keep their domestic trophies won whilst over cap as well

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:39

Apologies if I am missing something but my impression previously was that it was the property developments that took them over the cap once factored in.

If those have been dispensed with, how come they are still over?

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:39

Anyone got any other sources other than rugbypass?

Do we dare to dream? Ironically there would need to be some dispensation of the cap to accommodate the England stars in England. Oh the irony.

Or (thinking about it) England remove the requirement to play in England.

J



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/01/2020 21:41 by ChippenhamRoman.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:44

Excellent. Now strip them of their titles as well and job's a good 'un.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: Bathoutsider (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 21:53

BBC now picking up the story:

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Agreed itís going to be extremely messy if true.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:02

The players must have known this was going to come out eventually, surely?

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:03

Don't quite understand the logic of this. Regardless of anyone's views on the initial punishment, I don't see how Sarries can be expected to comply so soon after the first set of sanctions. You can't just sack players, and another thread suggests this wouldn't remove money from the cap anyway, so if this is true, what were the authorities expecting Saracens to do with pretty much immediate effect to avoid further punishment?

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:13

1) not play the players who have yet to play;
2) try and loan out players to Uk or abroad;
3) try and transfer players to UK or abroad;
4) mutual agreement to tear up contracts without paying severance.

Those are the only possibles that I can think of, assuming that they are all ok under the cap.

The real bombshell would be that none of those teams would presumably be able to play those very expensive players in the euro cup as they would be cup tied? So why would they bother? If the report is correct and 1) above hasnít done the trick along with 3) for Liam Williams then then itís checkmate isnít it?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:18

Quote:
TomReagan
Don't quite understand the logic of this. Regardless of anyone's views on the initial punishment, I don't see how Sarries can be expected to comply so soon after the first set of sanctions. You can't just sack players, and another thread suggests this wouldn't remove money from the cap anyway, so if this is true, what were the authorities expecting Saracens to do with pretty much immediate effect to avoid further punishment?

The authorities don't have to create a solution for sides to remedy their breaching of the cap, that is up to the clubs who breach the cap.

You don't get leniency for cheating because it will be hard to stop cheating.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:25

The mail reports that one DOR has suggested they could be over by as much as 25%, but doesnít offer a name of any evidence for this.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:37

"The authorities don't have to create a solution for sides to remedy their breaching of the cap, that is up to the clubs who breach the cap."

They kinda do if they don't want to risk one of their biggest brands.

It's great to splutter into your cornflakes about this but punish them and move on. I suspect it's what plr will do. I don't see how the league is richer without sarries and keep in mind our recent and long term past is hardly whiter than white.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:49

Quote:
DanWiley
"The authorities don't have to create a solution for sides to remedy their breaching of the cap, that is up to the clubs who breach the cap."
They kinda do if they don't want to risk one of their biggest brands.

It's great to splutter into your cornflakes about this but punish them and move on. I suspect it's what plr will do. I don't see how the league is richer without sarries and keep in mind our recent and long term past is hardly whiter than white.

They have punished them for previous seasons and moved on. This is a punishment for ongoing breaches. PRL cannot be expected to change the rules to let Saracens offload players without a cap impact. Saracens are to blame for any continuing overspend and not PRL.

The Premiership will be just as good a (if not better) competition with them relegated but the overall brand may be improved if fans and advertisers have greater trust in the credibility of the cap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/01/2020 22:51 by Never In Doubt.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:55

Should have relegated them down 3 leagues before they corrupted this season too.
It is rubbish to suggest Saracens enrich the league...they've destroyed it as a competition by being in it.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 22:59

Quote:
DanWiley
"The authorities don't have to create a solution for sides to remedy their breaching of the cap, that is up to the clubs who breach the cap."
They kinda do if they don't want to risk one of their biggest brands.

It's great to splutter into your cornflakes about this but punish them and move on. I suspect it's what plr will do. I don't see how the league is richer without sarries and keep in mind our recent and long term past is hardly whiter than white.

Erm..how are they a brand? Who benefits from Sarries the brand? How's the 'Brand" working out these days?
Seriously mate..check your cornflakes

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 23:10

Then they should have relegated them straight away. My point is, if this report is true, there isn't much logic behind how the matter is being handled. Offer an interim punishment, let them play some more games then relegate them because they couldn't suddenly undo the years of cheating by off-loading players who weren't prepared to leave to clubs that can't afford them anyway. If this was planned-and I'm rarely convinced by the authorities of most sports--then why wait so long? Strong evidence to suggest this was all held over to avoid derailing England's World Cup. What happens to the points won/not won in Sarries' games? What about fixtures still to be played? I'm not commenting on the rights and wrongs of what Saracens did, just the way it's being handled, and I can't see Saracens being relegated for not putting right their wrongs when they've not yet had a chance to do so.

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 23:41

I think the rfu will have a say on what happens to 'their' players...they cant allow an exodus from out of England although how they should be allowed to get involved is also ridiculous...

Re: Cheaters never prosper....in the long run
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 16 January, 2020 23:59

They (Saracens) must have known that their bluff was being called before the beginning of the season and certainly before the World Cup. Perhaps they should have taken steps to offload or not play squad members earlier when maybe more clubs could have been in a position to take on the available players.

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