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That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: @Hydor18 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2020 21:38

With reports of a number of targets having turned us down, what do you think the problem is: Money? Style of play? Lack of ambition? Carp pitch?

I cant put my finger on it, but we do need a 10 to challenge Priestland, and it seems to a sellers market at the moment. Id love us to sign someone who truly wants to play for the club and will be here for the long run.

Bod, with your Kiwi eye, whats your opinion of Tom Taylor? Having been sacked by Pau, hes a free agent and may be worth a punt.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2020 22:01

Id say pitch is up there....
and maybe that you arent seen as a club going anywhere or paying enough to negate that.
That is not a dig, most teams in the league would be the same, only they arent looking for a fly half...

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: Bod (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2020 22:54

I'd sit back and watch the next 10 weeks of NZ rugby and then make a pitch. I'd not be too interested in Taylor.
(Sm3)

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 09:21

Personally I do not believe the reports of the number of so called targets being officially approached and rebuking the club. I personally think a couple at most may have decided not to take up the offer and the rest is agent's gossip and rumours.

The club however, clearly is not the attractive prospect it once was to players. We have had a number of highly reported issues with management/players and more importantly what was reported of as mistreatment of senior players, couple this with our recent playing style and yes to a lesser extent our pitch during inclement weather and there is still this issue of players psychology - I personally know several clubs still believe our team is mentally weak when pressure comes on.

This has to be balanced against our fan base - I know I am biased but we have a superb fan base, knowledgeable and intelligent - it kind of reminds me of a micro New Zealand - The club is very close to the City and everyone in the city has an opinion on how the club should play and then there is our much vaunted training facilities and finally what a place to live and play your rugby!

In relation to a specific 10 - I think personally we need someone with the mental strength of someone like Butch James who was for a better word "Bloody Minded" and a born winner, my personal concern in bringing in a young kid with little to no experience is we are setting him up to fail - and why spend money when we have academy guys equally able to fit that particular role.

Most importantly of all in my opinion is we need an opposite style to RP and someone who commands the respect of the squad, there is no point of wasting money on a similar player to RP - hence why I am a fan of Matt Toomua - a running back with great vision and an excellent range of skills.

Time will tell I suppose.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 09:28

Quote:
Ali1969
In relation to a specific 10 - I think personally we need someone with the mental strength of someone like Butch James who was for a better word "Bloody Minded" and a born winner, my personal concern in bringing in a young kid with little to no experience is we are setting him up to fail - and why spend money when we have academy guys equally able to fit that particular role.
Time will tell I suppose.

A lot in that, someone a bit like Dan Biggar, that's why I was pleased when Rhys Webb joined. A "flappy man" character would do it.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough your old enough!

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 10:35

I agree with that Ali - I'm inclined to think that Hooper is probably rejecting more CVs than fly-halves are rejecting Bath.

We've just let go a fly-half who ticks at least 3 out of 5 boxes. It would make for some pretty daft business if we were to sign a replacment who doesn't then tick at least 4, preferably 5 boxes.

Where I disagree with you is that 'we need an opposite style to RP'. I just don't get this argument that you need two different types of fly-half in the squad. What we need are two fly-halfs who are both capable of executing the game plan and adapting it to circumstances, opposition, conditions - otherwise, one gets injured and what are you supposed to do? Change the whole game plan?

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 10:42

I think this is a little over-complicated hand-wringing. The real reason that high profile SH tens aren't joining us (recently) is less to do with Bath and more to do with France. The prestige players are just getting cash thrown at them by French clubs. If we look through the Prem at starting 10s:

Exeter: Simmonds (E)
Sale: Du Preez (SA)
Bristol: Sheedy (E)
Saints: Biggar (W)
Wasps: Umaga (E)
Bath: Priestland (W)
Quins: Smith (E)
Gloucester: Cipriani (E)
Worcester: Weir (S)
Tigers: Ford (E)
Saracens: Farrell (E)

That's one SH player (and wouldn't have been classed as prestige - as class as he is). The reality is it's the Prem, much more than Bath, that isn't as attractive to SH top level 10s.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 10:46

Don't think the idea is that we have a Jonathan Davies and Rob Andrew option, Opti but all decent 10s will bring their own instinctive game to the party surely?

Any quality 10 at the top level will be able to understand and apply a game plan but there will be times, and possibly under pressure, when instinct will take over and do we run or do I kick. It won't be the norm but it will come through at key moments

And you would want something a bit different coming off the bench in many scenarios. 15 points down with 15 to go and bringing a Rhys clone on is hardly going to put the bejeebers into the opposition

But, as with Freddie, the problem will be keeping a quality 10 happy if Rhys is continually given the starting shirt unless injured

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 10:49

15 points down and bring on a messiah is a ridiculous situation. Firstly it puts waaaay too much pressure on one players shoulders. It was what did for Freddie as well.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 10:50

"bringing a Rhys clone on is hardly going to put the bejeebers into the opposition"

There's the problem. If a Rhys clone doesn't put the bejeebers into the opposition, then original Rhys doesn't either. And he is our undisputed first-choice, starting 10.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 11:28

We've just let go a fly-half who ticks at least 3 out of 5 boxes. It would make for some pretty daft business if we were to sign a replacment who doesn't then tick at least 4, preferably 5 boxes.


How many does Rhys tick, 3.5?

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: bardofavon (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 11:41

with all the youth in the backs now we really need an experienced 10 to teach them a few things not another kid. an ex international late 20s would be good. money should not be an issue. we must be well under the cap at the moment with watson and underhill the only players on big money you would think.
i see lozowski went to montpellier on a loan deal in the end. if he was looking for a loan all along that would account for why nothing was signed between him and bath.
full credit to spencer for leaving saracens on a proper contract. he is one of the few. failure of saracens' players not only to criticise their club over salarygate (which of course they all benefitted from) but to double down on that by staying with the club leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. full credit you might say for showing loyalty when the chips are down, but the reality is that they all participated in an organzied scam that adversely affected the other clubs in the prem and the reputation of english rugby. i would have thrown the club out of the league, banned mccall for life (he must have been up to his elbows in it) and banned the players for two seasons, including for england. i see some pundits are touting itoje for lions capt. itoje is one of the main beneficiaries of scamgate and has refused to apologise for it or talk about his salary to the press. how can such a compromised person be captain of the lions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2020 11:42 by bardofavon.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: Duke of Earl (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 11:47

Quote:
@Hydor18
With reports of a number of targets having turned us down, what do you think the problem is: Money? Style of play? Lack of ambition? Carp pitch?
I cant put my finger on it, but we do need a 10 to challenge Priestland, and it seems to a sellers market at the moment. Id love us to sign someone who truly wants to play for the club and will be here for the long run.

Bod, with your Kiwi eye, whats your opinion of Tom Taylor? Having been
sacked by Pau, hes a free agent and may be worth a punt.

I know the pitch at the the Rec' gets a bit wet but I have never seen carp on it.



Nothing can stop the Duke of Earl

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: DanWiley (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 11:57

Presumably, we want a 10 who is hard to catch on the field, brings others into the game and creates a winning ethos, so we want an elusive conducive elusive expansive fly-half?

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 11:59

I think it's about character. Freddie was talented but he was a numpty - too much silly behaviour, too much talk, social media that didn't align with the club's PR etc. Whatever you think about that, I think it's the club's desire to have someone who is more 'Bath Rugby'. 10 is a critical position. I think Rhys is bang on for the club with his mentality, but doesn't have the electricity of a Burns or Cipriani.
I'm with opti - I think Bath is being choosy, not so much the other way around.

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 12:20

If we go into next season.....whenever that is with RP as our "only" flyhalf I am going to have to take some drastic action of my own...........I will have to drink copious amounts of Thatchers before the game to anaesthetise myself(Sm63)

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 12:24

Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
If we go into next season.....whenever that is with RP as our "only" flyhalf I am going to have to take some drastic action of my own...........I will have to drink copious amounts of Thatchers before the game to anaesthetise myself(Sm63)

I on the other hand will consume15 cups of coffee to stop me falling asleep

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 12:36

It isn't pretty is it

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: johnnyf (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 12:42

Not as pretty as Eric df2 !

Re: That Elusive Flyhalf
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2020 12:56

Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
If we go into next season.....whenever that is with RP as our "only" flyhalf I am going to have to take some drastic action of my own...........I will have to drink copious amounts of Thatchers before the game to anaesthetise myself(Sm63)

I on the other hand will consume15 cups of coffee to stop me falling asleep

Sounds like its espresso martinis or vodka and red bull all around then...



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

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