Current Page: 2 of 4
Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Eastrrr Bunny (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 08:23

Whilst some may deem it harsh it is necessary. Sarries arenít small offenders they are top end persistent offenders. I donít blame the players, but anyone who thinks they didnít know what has been happening is in cloud cuckoo land.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: NW2 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 08:42

Relegation is the only fair outcome IMO.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 08:45

In my opinion there is a degree of complicitness on all accounts.

People have been banging on about Saracens and the salary cap for some years. Players and fans will have had to wilfully suspend disbelief and turned a blind eye to enjoy the gravy train whilst the wheels were still on.

I don't for a moment believe that the thought did not (or at least could not) have entered (say) Owen Farrel's mind that the likes of Itoje and Maitland weren't on similar wedges to him and that it would all add up...

So whilst the players and fans didn't do anything wrong per se - certainly not regulation wise - their requires a level of complicitness, even if that is keeping your head down and not asking.

So my sympathy well doth run pretty shallow all round.

Sorry

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Faithful_City (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 09:10

Who could disagree with you there TVM.

They are all mature intelligent men and will have made a conscious decision to join Saracens knowing they were in breach, certainly their agents will have known.

maybe they could sue their agents if they were not fully informed??

But they still joined for the money and the glory.

Now they will have to take their punishment like naughty little boys. As most clubs will be near or at the Salary ceiling and won't be able to afford these VERY expensive players.

JP

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Diverdave (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 09:20

Iím hoping that some of the clubs will stand firm and not think of getting rid of some if their own players in order to enable them to take advantage of sarries possibly offloading some of theirs, I think it would be both extremely shallow and unsporting if they did this.

I certainly wouldnít be happy if we were to cull players who have been loyal to the club in order that we benefit

Though Iím sure not all will feel the same way

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 10:42

Putting a more positive spin on everything

Doesn't all of this put into sharp relief what an incredible job Exeter have done - going toe to toe with Sarries for some years now....

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: NW2 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 10:47

Quote:
TVM Rides Again
Putting a more positive spin on everything
Doesn't all of this put into sharp relief what an incredible job Exeter have done - going toe to toe with Sarries for some years now....

It does TVM, but equally it is difficult to imagine just how pi55ed off they must be to have lost to them in crucial games.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Inbox (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 11:02

Quote:
Eastrrr Bunny
Whilst some may deem it harsh it is necessary. Sarries arenít small offenders they are top end persistent offenders. I donít blame the players, but anyone who thinks they didnít know what has been happening is in cloud cuckoo land.

Agree with you but read some on the Sarries board who feel sorry for the players and the situation the club has put them in. Frankly the players MUST have been aware of the circumstances of their contracts, incredulous to think that they (and their agents/representatives) have been duped.

To that extent, they are all complicit in the ďcheatingĒ...

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 11:21

Quote:
Inbox
Quote:
Eastrrr Bunny
Whilst some may deem it harsh it is necessary. Sarries arenít small offenders they are top end persistent offenders. I donít blame the players, but anyone who thinks they didnít know what has been happening is in cloud cuckoo land.

Agree with you but read some on the Sarries board who feel sorry for the players and the situation the club has put them in. Frankly the players MUST have been aware of the circumstances of their contracts, incredulous to think that they (and their agents/representatives) have been duped.

To that extent, they are all complicit in the ďcheatingĒ...

I suppose the only excuse is that they were told that the investments thing was a legitmate and had been cleared by the rule makers.

Thereafter we are getting into the world of individual ethical codes and the (no matter what anyone says) highly subjective world of 'fair'.

Missold or not - I suspect no one argued too hard when it was all working, even if they did see it as 'unfair'.

On yet another hand, people always say 'they should have refused it, said something' - which is really easy to say when you are not the one blowing the whistle. Blowing the whistle is hard and requires no small courage.

Either way with the whole investments thing, which you could argue they were missold if they were told it was all kosher...there is still required a certain amount of self-kidding to think this kindly older gentleman would have entered into investments with them in a non Saracens world. Becasue if you accept he wouldn't - surely you have to accept that they accepted it was a form of salary and - even if it was sold as not against the rules - they must have been able to tell it was against the spirit. It's all in theory obviously, but that is just a conclusion from available evidence.

Which leads us back to the standpoint of even if they have done nothing wrong in a regulatory sense, are the players 'innocent?'

Next week on the moral maze.......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 17/01/2020 11:41 by TVM Rides Again.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: kiddykid (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 11:38

Automatic relegation for them might bring a measure of Ďthey deserve every thing they getí, but, Sarries in the Championship will kill that as a competition for at least a season. Relegate them for three seasons as has been suggested and the Championship might as well pack up and go home, so, possibly a Ďsweetenerí for them is needed like a Prem of 14 clubs as from next season while Sarries plough their way through to their promotion - whenever that may be.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Old Col (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 12:13

It's not just the players and direct Saracens employees that are going to be affected--wait and see how their local suppliers etc will be damaged and realise it was caused by cheating.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Villages12 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 12:37

I have ZERO sympathy with the position Saracens find themselves in. It's been obvious that they've not played by the rules on salary cap for a long.

However, I think it's a bit over the top to point at individual players about this problem. Careers are short in rugby and every player is looking for the best rewards they can get and who can blame them for that. Surely we're not suggesting that players should decide what their team's performance to the salary cap is before signing up ?

Saracens Management is guilty of the salary excess.

Be careful this doesn't come home to bite us. If their are players becoming available or even returning to us I wouldn't want to come or come back to a place where fans are of the opinion that It was partly my fault that his happened !

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: WarwickEastie (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 12:42

This has unravelled very quickly.

I wasn't very happy with the original points deduction as it appeared they had 'got away with it' - as they were likely to avoid relegation.

Relegation does seem a fair outcome - and there will be significant pain for everyone, the club, supporters, players all the way down to the tea lady.

Ultimately its the management who have to take accountability - and Wray is stepping away.

On one hand they deserve it all. But I don't really want to see them totally smashed apart. Strong clubs make for a strong league - and our Premiership is probably the best club league in the world.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Malvernman (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 12:43

I hope Nigel Wray's departure from the club "altogether" - word in punctuation marks because there are still family connections through his children - is not part of move to whitewash his business dealings with key players with their all so-coincidental joint business investments. He was clearly a "connected party" when those deals were done. Surely they can't be re-worked in a way that brings them out of the salary cap calculations?

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 12:54

Quote:
Villages12

. Surely we're not suggesting that players should decide what their team's performance to the salary cap is before signing up ?


Maybe they should.

When looking at a new job - is the future viability of the company a consideration of mine? Yes. Will they be able to pay my salary in three years time? What's their work pipeline like etc etc - I think about all these things.

Their ability to pay my salary is important. So to a degree - yes maybe it should have entered the player's minds and they could weigh it up as a risk. Then that risk is their's to take.

They saw the big number. They snapped Saracen's hand off. That's fine.

Should they be punished? No.

Should they be coddled when the gravy train they have been on pulls into the station? Equally - No.

It's simply a consequence of their choice. They aren't the direct cause, but neither should there be a whipround.

No one is asking them to give anything back - I simply don't feel sorry for them either. Just accept it was nice whilst it lasted and join the rest of their colleagues in this universe.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 17/01/2020 13:13 by TVM Rides Again.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 13:46

Another story is they have to off load £2M worth of players by the end of the month, now ending a players contract like that would leave compensation to be paid and that also counts in the cap, so I cannot see how this is resolved and (not)Sorries stay in the Premiership. They should consider themselves lucky that the Scottish football rules don't apply. Rangers had to start again from the very bottom of the league, this did however help smaller clubs like Montrose near me who sold out their ground for their visit.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Bevere Warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 14:04

Think Singleton must seriously be regretting his decision to move on.

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Faithful_City (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 14:11

Thatís why I suggested earlier he might be a returning player.

JP

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: Faithful_City (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 14:25

Thereís that much going on itís quicker to produce this link to the latest rugby news filtered on Saracens

NewsNow All Sarries News/Reports


JP

Re: Wow!!!
Posted by: TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
Date: 17 January, 2020 14:43

The one about french clubs is interesting

Am I correct that they don't have a cap?

If so....them taking action could possibly be considered unsporting.... sort of like arguing that its unfair that the english club didn't suffer a disadvantage to us....

Current Page: 2 of 4
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net