Current Page: 1 of 2
Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: poplarside (IP Logged)
Date: 25 June, 2020 20:19

Ir's reported tonight that Bedford are entering in to a partnership with Northampton Saints. It's a move that will see the clubs sharing players, coaches and training sessions. Could be real lifeline for a Championship club at present.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Moosemagic (IP Logged)
Date: 25 June, 2020 23:15

Not so sure, it smacks of feeder clubs and "B" teams, which is something the RFU have wanted for ages. Ring fence the Premiership and then have a ready made source of top upcoming talent.

It will make a mockery of the Championship.



Phil Reynolds

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: HoboAl (IP Logged)
Date: 25 June, 2020 23:36

Quote:
Moosemagic
Not so sure, it smacks of feeder clubs and "B" teams, which is something the RFU have wanted for ages. Ring fence the Premiership and then have a ready made source of top upcoming talent.
It will make a mockery of the Championship.

Normally I would agree. But under the current stress of RFU cuts and the impact of Covid19....the palate really is open ended when it comes to budgets. Time to ditch the perfect ideology and realise how much rugby clubs are under threat.

Potentially we are going to see how deep the fans pockets are rather than the owners

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Paul Ingleston (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 08:43

Quote:
HoboAl
Quote:
Moosemagic
Not so sure, it smacks of feeder clubs and "B" teams, which is something the RFU have wanted for ages. Ring fence the Premiership and then have a ready made source of top upcoming talent.
It will make a mockery of the Championship.

Normally I would agree. But under the current stress of RFU cuts and the impact of Covid19....the palate really is open ended when it comes to budgets. Time to ditch the perfect ideology and realise how much rugby clubs are under threat.

Potentially we are going to see how deep the fans pockets are rather than the owners

Interesting point Al and one to consider. However, I think you also have to consider the fact that it is Bedford who have taken the plunge to junior partnership, a team that, seemingly, had no desire to reach for the Premiership, in any of its sponsors guises, and were content to retain their place in the Championship.
I think with the player drain witnessed at Goldington Road lately, pay might have been a factor in players leaving, but players also must have an ambitious streak in their bodies or else why do they take the hits? If the players have got wind of the link-up, might explain why they have sought employment elsewhere rather than be usurped by a Northampton senior returning from injury and needing game time. There are other things at play here as well, such as identity loss. Me, and it’s my own opinion , I prefer my clubs history, tradition and ethos to be maintained as it would be, not transposed at a vehicle for a ‘ senior clubs’ fitness machine.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: HoboAl (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 10:46

Paul, I certainly agree with the negatives and potential dangers you point out. I have never been a fan of the Hartpury model.

But clubs are facing extreme demands on their finances with next season potentially being delayed until December - 8 to 9 months of next to no income coming in.

We all like the traditional rugby club, with its history, standing proud and independant. But I do fear some clubs are going to struggle to survive and we may lose a few along the way.

I think with Bedford it is as much a case of life above the Championship being too cost prohibitive; rather than just lacking ambition.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Butts121 (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 11:27

Trouble is if it is the RFU's intention to see this approach taken, how can a loss making premiership afford to take on a loss making championship club? They'll be some savings on staff costs all round, but the 'junior' team will be the secondary concern for the prem clubs' board. I can see it having a detrimental affect to any club taking this route. Although if it were a case of that v going bust I'd take it.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Egg Timer (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 12:47

We could also consider that being able to use the pitch means there *could/should* be some revenue from that, outside our Saturday afternoon fix.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: abdabs (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 12:59

We have to realise that when things go back they definitely won't be under the same conditions. I have always been against the Hartpury model but we have to move with the tide if we don't want to be left behind. Northampton has always been a good feeder of talent for us over the years and now that hunting ground has gone we need to move to new pastures...as long as its not Wasps!. The obvious suggestion with Anthony Allen on board would be Tigers but personally speaking I would prefer a tie in with Worcester??

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: telly1 (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 15:22

When Cov owned Bedford, if allowed to continue, maybe both clubs would be stronger now.
Saints will just use the Blues for own ends.
Blues now finished. So, one less for Covs promo ambitions to worry about.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: poplarside (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 15:23

Quote:
HoboAl
Paul, I certainly agree with the negatives and potential dangers you point out. I have never been a fan of the Hartpury model.
But clubs are facing extreme demands on their finances with next season potentially being delayed until December - 8 to 9 months of next to no income coming in.

We all like the traditional rugby club, with its history, standing proud and independant. But I do fear some clubs are going to struggle to survive and we may lose a few along the way.

I think with Bedford it is as much a case of life above the Championship being too cost prohibitive; rather than just lacking ambition.

Totally agree. I also have never been a fan of the Hartpury model but these aren't normal times and in all sorts of spheres there are companies and individuals trying new solutions to problems.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Moosemagic (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 17:09

I'm not convinced and remarkably I agree with some of the things telly1 has said. Surely you lose your whole identity, people have said they dont like the Hartpury model but seem ok with this proposal, which does not seem to make much sense.
Times will be tough for sure I think we all recognise that but I think the depth of sharing between Bed and Saints is a step too far.
Sharing, coaches, players and training sessions, I would be fuming if I was a Bed supporter, it just smacks of "Probables v Possibles"
The only talent to get nurtured will be the Saints academy.
Wasps and Cov anyone? I thought not.



Phil Reynolds

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Mick J Shaw (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 17:51

I wonder if Cov could use their links to Leinster for players and for younger talent link up with the Lambs, I know they had a thing with Ealing but unless they are an exceptional talent are not going to get game time that they may get at Cov

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Aberavon Wizard (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 21:59

May I intrude on the discussion for a moment ?

I am a Saints STH who also enjoys going down to Goldington Road 2-3 times a season to watch The Blues in order to remind myself what club rugby should be about.

The gulf between Premiership and Championship is enormous which explains, to some extent, why Worcester, Newcastle and Irish seem to yoyo up and down on a regular basis. The second tier is unsustainable as a fully professional entity, sad but true.

Saints and Bedford have always had very close ties - the new arrangement is more formalised but is also a return to how things once were before Blues dalliance with Barnet aka Saracens.

The Premiership A League has been struggling for some time. A number of clubs would prefer it were not to exist at all, others struggle to put out a team and 'guest' players are frequently on the team sheets.

It would be a retrograde step imho if Championship Clubs simply became a Premiership Clubs second team. I don't believe this is the intention but I understand the fears expressed on this and other forums.

FWIW, I and very many Saints fans are 100% against the idea of ring fencing the Premiership. Clubs must be allowed to have the ambition to challenge at the highest level of English Club rugby. Not all Championship clubs seek that jump if no other reason than the rules and regulations are so stacked against them and no one wishes to see another London Welsh scenario.

Lets see how the Saints-Blues arrangement works out when we get back to playing some rugby.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/06/2020 22:02 by Aberavon Wizard.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: poplarside (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 07:58

Good post Wizard and welcome. to the forum. The positive I can find from this particular partnership is that all the comments I've read so far from both Saints and Blues fans have been welcoming to the arrangement. That consensus is rare with such a big change.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: longford tim (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 09:24

There is still a lot of vitriol towards Wasps, and personally, I am still very uncomfortable with a Buckinghamshire based club owning a ground in Coventry, but it would definitely make sense if they had a few 18-20 year old's who can't get game time plying their trade in The Championship. I am not advocating close ties with them,but there might still be a few Jack Willis type players who could be of great use to us

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Mick J Shaw (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 09:42

Quote:
longford tim
There is still a lot of vitriol towards Wasps, and personally, I am still very uncomfortable with a Buckinghamshire based club owning a ground in Coventry, but it would definitely make sense if they had a few 18-20 year old's who can't get game time plying their trade in The Championship. I am not advocating close ties with them,but there might still be a few Jack Willis type players who could be of great use to us

Although I dont like wasps being in the city, it would make sense to use some of their players

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: covmick1/Michael Carter (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 10:08

I do not know how the Bedford club is in any financial state. But if this move helps the club to survive then so be it. It seems very obvious that some clubs will need to alter their way of doing things to continue. Maybe in time given use and increases in revenue things will change. But good luck to Northampton and Bedford clubs in this venture. Fair play to Northampton in helping their neighbours.



covmick/Michael Carter

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: SimonG19 (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 14:08

Quote:
telly1
When Cov owned Bedford, if allowed to continue, maybe both clubs would be stronger now.
Saints will just use the Blues for own ends.
Blues now finished. So, one less for Covs promo ambitions to worry about.

Fortunately in all my time watching rugby I have come across very very few people with views like yours which is why I enjoy the company of rugby supporters.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: telly1 (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 15:49

With Saints support, Blues can conceivably win the championship.
This would then create a conflict of interest.
Blues have refused promotion in the past and taken the money, (£1million)plus umbrella.
Clearly, on this basis, Saints have a massive advantage over othe Premier sides because all their squad would be big match fit and competitive due the much higher quality in the championship rather than the academy league.

Re: Bedford and Northampton Saints
Posted by: Aberavon Wizard (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 16:31

Quote:
telly1
With Saints support, Blues can conceivably win the championship.
This would then create a conflict of interest.
Blues have refused promotion in the past and taken the money, (£1million)plus umbrella.
Clearly, on this basis, Saints have a massive advantage over othe Premier sides because all their squad would be big match fit and competitive due the much higher quality in the championship rather than the academy league.

Well, we will enjoy being competitive for sure but remember that unlike Bath, Bristol, Sale and Saracens, we do not have the 'advantage' of a sugar daddy who will pay for anything and everything without needing to show a profit. Traditional clubs such as Saints, Tiggers and Gloucester which represent close knit towns and cities are run as commercial entities dependent upon gate receipts, sponsorship and the ability to play on their wits if not to make a profit but at least minimise their losses. We do not run unsustainable business models as a certain former resident club of Loftus Road and Adams Park appear to do so. I am a huge believer in the Championship and the concept of promotion and relegation - all power to Coventry, Bedford, Pirates, Ealing et al for the future in difficult times.

Current Page: 1 of 2
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net