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Recruitment
Posted by: Master Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 08:52

With the fantastic news of the signing of Jonny Gray what does this mean for the shape of the squad next season..

I am firstly hoping we can retain some of our key players who are out of contract, namely Williams, Kvesic and Sam Hill. Losing any of these would weaken us and strengthen another. But to keep Williams we will have to find space in the cap for a significant pay rise.

This might come from losing Greg Holmes who is in his final season. Will we have enough tightheads though, with Williams, Francis, Street, Petch and Schickerling, or do we need to replace Holmes (such as a contract for Pieretto) to bolster the resources for when Williams and Francis are on international duty?

It is likely that this is also the final season for club legends Steenson and Dollman, so we will be looking for another 10/15. We are rumoured to be chasing Max Malins, which would be a fantastic signing. However, it is thought he is staying at Sarries.

With regards the back three it is possible that one or two of our wingers are in their final year of contract, such as Cuthbert and Short. Do we keep them, let one of them go to free up cap, or replace them (given Dollman might also leave)?

We are also losing Nic White. Rob has said that he is weighing up signing a high quality 9 or giving the youngsters a run. Is there enough quality and depth in Townsend and the two Maunders to steer us to trophies? One option could be Ali Price..

It is possible that Jonny Gray will be our second marquee player which would make it difficult to sign a world class 9 (if any are available) or Ross Moriarty, as rumoured, within the cap. We would have to let go a Kvesic etc to sign more players.

With the signing of Gray it puts in doubt the future of Jannes Kirsten, who for me is showing signs of becoming a big physical presence for us. However, I canít see that any other lock is out of contract and we already have too many locks IMHO.. Gray, Dennis, Hill, Kirsten, Skinner, Witty, Lonsdale, Price etc (plus all the youngsters including Pearson, Teague etc).

I am sure there are others out of contract but I donít want to speculate too much. What is clear though is that there are some important players out of contract, some older players might leave and therefore some big decisions to be made about how we spend the cap. As ever, I am sure we all hope that we look to keep our best players as a priority.

Possible leavers:

Phil Dollman
Gareth Steenson
Nic White
Greg Holmes
Jannes Kirsten (?)

Possible re-signings (fingers crossed!):

Sam Hill
Harry Williams
Matt Kvesic

Possible signings:

Max Malins (fingers crossed)
Enrique Pieretto
Jonny Gray (confirmed)
Ross Moriarty (unlikely)

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Jehovas Sandals (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 09:03

I think Malins will be staying put and Enrique has signed as cover...... I imagine he would be back to Argentina so as to carry on his international career.
Dolly and Steeno will both I imagine hang up thier boots....... With regards to new contracts, signings etc I think it's a hard call. A 9 would be my choice and possibly a 10...... Maybe a prop or 2 from the championship..... One or 2 rough diamonds we tend to find.



I drink and forget stuff!

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 09:36

Good summary MC.
You can add Jack Maunder to the list of possible leavers, his contract is also up for renewal !
With regards to a 9, I donít think we need to sign anyone new, you say, are they good enough to win trophies, the answer is yes, the year we won the Premiership, Chudders was injured for most of it, Jack played up to the final 3 games when he got injured and Stu stepped in to finish off the season. Imo, we played our best ever rugby that year.
Jack is still rated by Eddie Jones, and young Sam is the current England u20 scrum half !
I would like to see us sign another quality centre / full back, someone like Malins or Lozowski.

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: clalan (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 11:19

No need for a nine imho, we need to trust the youngsters, and the chats I have had, we have some superb guys coming through.
Its just a shame so many new signing are injured, they may play there part when the internationals are on, then we can see their worth as squad players. As stated at AGM over 65% of our squad have come through the Academy hence we can afford a top player.

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Master Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 11:53

I would be happy if we stuck with our current crop of 9s.. Jack, Stu and Sam. But I would like to see them all given more game time this season, rotating/ resting White a little more. All three have potential. However, although Jackís basics are superb he lacks pace. The likes of Reinach, de Klerk, Randall etc add an extra dimension to their teams because they attack the fringes. Sometimes our attack is too easily read because we always play off 9 or pass the ball out. Our 9s almost never run at defences. Perhaps Stu, who has a little more pace than the others, is the future. What we will lose with White is the game management. It would therefore be good to see Joe/ our 10s control the game a little more by kicking for the corners/ playing the territory game. The teams that win the big trophies tend to have world class players at 9 and/or 10 who can control a game/ change a game with a little bit of magic. Hopefully Stu and Joe have the ability to do that and that it is nurtured this season before White leaves, but the signs are good.

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Axe Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 11:56

This year could be one in which we have our biggest rearrangement of players. Those retiring, moving on and potentially more signings. Much will eventually depend if any of the old academy develop, or are allowed to.
From being thin in the lock section we now look to have too many, but if there is still concern over the fitness of some maybe that will naturally sort itself.
I can only see two positions that are on more of a knife edge, assuming two of our legends don't get a further extension, but the biggest and potentially most serious one is at 10.
We have in Joe a near international player, but if Steeno hangs up his boots, or we get an injury to either, .......NOW, that will provide an interesting choice of strategy. Is Harvey ready yet? He looks useful, but gradually introducing him to such a big step up would be the desired option. Morley looks tricky, but is quite small and is going to take a couple of years to be even considered .
Of the current team Henry could cover at 10, but at the moment injured, never looked very settled at 10, but arguably one of the best centre, anywhere. Ollie did play 10 for Bath, but equally looked very flaky, and is the cover for Henry's absence, providing of course he too doesn't get International calling.
So I suggest 10 is the biggest conundrum for the coaches to solve. There probably was good reason to suggest the rumour about Malins had some substance, but unfortunately (perhaps ironically because of the salary cap!) I can't see him moving. Injuries at Saracens have shown what a talent he has, and he would have solved both problems at 10 & 15.

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 14:19

Chiefs do not want a running 9, my understanding is that it is heavily frowned upon unless you are 5m out and guaranteed to score. Maunder is quicker to the breakdown than Stu, that is because his reading of the game and where the play is likely to go is incredible, he predicts where play will head and takes the shortest possible route to get there, rather than loop in behind play and try and catch up. When Stu plays our tempo often drops off because his delivery is slower (due to taking 2 or 3 steps before passing).

Stats wise:
White has an avg metres gained figure of 1m this season, 8 tackles made, 1 missed, 88% success rate.
Maunder has an avg metres gained figure of 2.45m, 22 tackles made, 2 missed, 92% success rate.
Stu has an avg metres made figure of 4.92m, 17 tackles made, 12 missed, 58% success rate, BUT, has conceded 8 turnovers to Maunders 3 and Whites 5 !
No point making sniping breaks if you give the ball away !!
By way of comparison, Maunder has made more tackles this season than Whitten who has made only 20 with a success rate of 83% and the same as Sam Hill !!
In summary, Jacks contribution is often far greater than he is given credit for, the Coachís know that and that is why they pick him.

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: minuteman (IP Logged)
Date: 04 January, 2020 22:41

Its a stimulating topic and one that none of us has any influence over.
Certainly any successful team in either the premiership, Europe or both - has to have serious strength and depth .
Whilst its great admiring players from other teams - they wont all necessarily fit the Exeter ethos .
Bath today had a great team on paper but came up along way short against Glos .
For me, us and Sarries are a way ahead of the other premiership sides as we have a settled squad and coaching setup and never make sweeping changes- usually adding value by developing good players into great ones whether from the academy or outside.
For me a seasoned 9 should be on our wish list and perhaps a 10 to boot.
Our pack is formidable with good players coming through.
Certainly if we could take a few players from elsewhere then Malins and Tompkins at Sarries look very handy but you know that Rob and co have a plan and have to do it within the cap.
Still cant believe we have developed world class players that any other team would have .. Jack, Henry and LCD with Joe and Sam on their tails ...
the future is definitely bright

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Tribester (IP Logged)
Date: 05 January, 2020 00:04

Hang on, Whitten has only made 20 tackles this season.
Is that right? Wow.

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 05 January, 2020 09:47

Apologies, my stats were taken from Chiefs web site which is not up to date, these are correct from the Prem Rugby site !
White Mins played 233, avg metres gained 1.72, tackles made 15, missed 2, success 88%, turnovers conceded 9
Maunder mins played 300, avg metres 2.25, tackles made 30, missed 2, success 94%, turnovers conceded 4
Stu mins played 18, avg metres 4, tackles made 5, missed 1, success 85%, turnovers conceded 2

Whitton mins played 480, tackles made 30, missed 7, success 81%
Sam Hill mins played 385, tackles made 33, missed 14, success 70%

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: mommentum (IP Logged)
Date: 05 January, 2020 13:00

we will miss White a lot because of his never lay down winners mentality.

As Stu as only played 18 mins after a year off hard to make comparison, but he seems a bigger character then Sam and has a big boot on him.

Williams is a most keep, and Kirsten as been a good replacement for Lees i would be sorry to see leave.

if Short is not playing now when we are so short of pace and had whitten on the wing then he will never play for us again.

i would try and sign Homer at Bath

signing another lock that will be away for 9 weeks a season is a bit of a surprise to me, we had a lot of joy signing players who would not be away in the international windows. also only 6 foot 4 so not over tall for the lineout were we depent on Hill so much

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Mabolza (IP Logged)
Date: 06 January, 2020 16:48

It should be noted that Stuart Hogg is also a very capable fly half and has in fact been capped twice for the Lions in that position

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 06 January, 2020 19:31

Quote:
Mabolza
It should be noted that Stuart Hogg is also a very capable fly half and has in fact been capped twice for the Lions in that position

Thanks Mabolza, I never knew that, thinking about it he would be a pretty good 10 !

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Celtic Chieftain (IP Logged)
Date: 07 January, 2020 07:33

The Egg Chasers podcast suggested White's departure frees up a marquee player spot for Gray. Don't know if that's true.



"Look, I'm fine, I don't need to go off, but I just can't remember what position I play."

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Master Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 07 January, 2020 09:24

That would be the obvious assumption. Which means that we are unlikely to recruit a replacement for White

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Celtic Chieftain (IP Logged)
Date: 07 January, 2020 13:53

Quote:
Master Chief
That would be the obvious assumption. Which means that we are unlikely to recruit a replacement for White

It might have been posted on another thread but this link is to the recent study of most to least well-paid positions in a rugby team.

[www.ruck.co.uk]

Scrum halves are among the lower end in terms of salary, which was a surprise (although not as surprising as hooker being the lowest!). Clearly it's linked to the availability of players more than importance of the role.

RB is conscious of the importance of a "Moneyball" style approach, as per the other thread. Presumably he feels able to replace White within the cap. Maunder and Stu still have room to develop and are quite young so still likely to be an experienced player I would have thought.



"Look, I'm fine, I don't need to go off, but I just can't remember what position I play."

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Master Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 08 January, 2020 07:06

I remember seeing this. Itís very interesting. But according to that article, scrum halves appear to be one of the higher paid positions not lower. So I would imagine that it will be difficult to recruit a replacement for White. IF we do I would love to see us sign Ali Price.. still mid-20s, experienced international, lots of pace, will be away with Scotland giving opportunities to Maunder and Townsend etc. Plus we have Hogg and Gray now so he would be a good fit!

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Celtic Chieftain (IP Logged)
Date: 08 January, 2020 18:26

Quote:
Master Chief
I remember seeing this. Itís very interesting. But according to that article, scrum halves appear to be one of the higher paid positions not lower. So I would imagine that it will be difficult to recruit a replacement for White. IF we do I would love to see us sign Ali Price.. still mid-20s, experienced international, lots of pace, will be away with Scotland giving opportunities to Maunder and Townsend etc. Plus we have Hogg and Gray now so he would be a good fit!

I was actually looking at the Pro 14 there, like a big eejit. Sorry



"Look, I'm fine, I don't need to go off, but I just can't remember what position I play."

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: mommentum (IP Logged)
Date: 08 January, 2020 21:46

[quote mommentum]we will miss White a lot because of his never lay down winners mentality.

As Stu as only played 18 mins after a year off hard to make comparison, but he seems a bigger character then Sam and has a big boot on him.

I meant Stu is a bigger character than Jack

Re: Recruitment
Posted by: Celtic Chieftain (IP Logged)
Date: 08 January, 2020 22:29

Quote:
mommentum
As Stu as only played 18 mins after a year off hard to make comparison, but he seems a bigger character then Sam and has a big boot on him.

I meant Stu is a bigger character than Jack

On a bit of a tangent, but looking at Stu/Jack as our future at 9, how different or similar would we want our 2 scrum halves to be?

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