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Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Monkey1 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 April, 2020 19:11

From their message board:

Quote:
TOKS
I had heard that Newcastle had been quite badly affected by the current economic situation. As is generally known, there are fairly stringent financial and ground parameters that have to be met in order for a team to be permitted to be promoted.

I do hope that no corners have been cut in the unseemly haste to relegate another team.

This has been posted for more than two days, not a single Saracens supporter has criticised it for a lack of taste, indeed it is followed up by two inferences that our finances have not been properly audited, which coming from a club who refused to have their finances audited at all and have been caught cheating financially must surely earn the Brass Neck of the Year Award.

My only conclusion is that the club is rotten to the core at all levels. Not just the management who decided upon the policy of downright cheating, or the players who were part of what was going on, but also the supporters. We all knew that there was no way they were within the cap, not with that squad year after year, and how many times were there calls for the salary cap to be properly enforced because of this obvious cheating. I can only assume that their supporters also knew that their successes were built upon fraud, it was obvious to everyone else, but they turned a blind eye and have become equally morally bankrupt.

I was one of those who had argued that they had been punished enough, that it was not fair to hold the sins of the club against the supporters, but for them to joke that because they have wads of cash, and the current crisis could severely damage us as a club, perhaps they have the better moral argument to be in the Premiership makes me sick. Right now I am of the mind to despise them forever, and should we be forced to welcome this immoral bunch to KP in the future, I for one will not be welcoming at all.

Utterly disgusting beyond belief!

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: trummy200 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 April, 2020 22:19

Would agree - They appear to think all is fine now. Some clubs appear to be softening the punishment and they are revelling in it. (Loan agreements)

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Osric (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 08:28

I don't weep for them and am not a Sarries apologist but I'd hate for us to be judged by the comments made by one poster. As with all clubs, they'll have the full spectrum of life's rich tapestry amongst their spectator body. Moral high ground needed. We're up. They're down (and should be for two years until the rules are re-written in their favour). Given that, generally, cheating in sport is nowadays punished lightly, that's a result.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: dick g (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 08:33

What I think about Saracens is not permitted to appear here. The attitude of some Sarries contrasts vividly with the stance taken by Ealing after our promotion.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Bedlington Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 08:37

The poster quoted has defended them at all times against all charges. Myself and others from different clubs have pointed out transgressions but the poster couldn't care less. Many of the other Sarries posters have been hacked off by the way their club behaves, so it's a minority I suspect. This TOKS has said Saracens should get a "London Weighting" allowance because of where they play, which tells you all you need to know about the idiot.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Bedlington Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 08:42

I know it's banging your head against a brick wall but i thought I'd post a reply on their board:

"No corners have been cut, you had to go because you lied cheated and refused to open your books. " I hope that clears it up for them(Sm100)

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: dick g (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 09:02

Quote:
Bedlington Lad
I know it's banging your head against a brick wall but i thought I'd post a reply on their board:
"No corners have been cut, you had to go because you lied cheated and refused to open your books. " I hope that clears it up for them(Sm100)

Tell it as it is, Beddo.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 09:29

Quote:
Osric
I don't weep for them and am not a Sarries apologist but I'd hate for us to be judged by the comments made by one poster. As with all clubs, they'll have the full spectrum of life's rich tapestry amongst their spectator body. Moral high ground needed. We're up. They're down (and should be for two years until the rules are re-written in their favour). Given that, generally, cheating in sport is nowadays punished lightly, that's a result.

Agree. It's one person clutching at straws. Let's be bigger rather than keep kicking them.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: steve1888 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 09:36

Sarries wouldn't need to be down 2 year , they took measures to get under the cap this season and assuming they do next then they're fine.

Some fans will always be one eyed but remeber these forums are a minority of a clubs supporters and a lot stay off tehm due to the amount of@#$%&posted on them.

They may have a fair point about living costs but that needs taken up with Premier Rugby not just acted upon. I doubt many of us could sunddenly move to London and live the same on the same wages.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: A tramp abroad (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 09:46

I am sure that the great majority of Sarries fans are true rugby supporters. Judging by this thread on the Sarries board and a few of the comments on some of the national press articles there are a deluded few who think they have done nothing wrong and it is all a devious plot by Premiership Rugby and the RFU to punish them for being so successful.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: stuart66 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 10:45

having read the whole thread and other threads last night. Its based on articles in various newspapers that have led to rumers that we and other clubs are about too go bankrupt. If you believe all the rumers the premiship will be lucky to have 8 or 9 teams left (I am not voiceing an personal openion before monkey has a go). The only rumer that has been backed up is Bristol where pat lam has reportedly said he does not expect to have a job in rugby by September and told his players too look for a carear beyond rugby in the coming months according to jurnalist's. Some upset sarries fans are takeing it out on us as we are going up and they are going down.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: CharlieDog (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 11:07

I'm with Monkey on this one.

For the very simple reason, it's not directly us they are blaming but the PRL who they are suggesting might have bent the rules to allow us back up when they themselves set out to deliberately cheat and utterly abuse the rules.

To make it even more morally bankrupt, they talk about ground criteria when all they do is rent a park field with a stand somewhere close.

Unfortunately the PRL will bend the rules in their favour and let them back after one year as they have broken the rules this year and need to be clean for 2 years. - furlough payments to the club will not (should not) count as a reduction as the salary cap is based on payments to the players, not contributions received by the club.

Even now they don't understand they are Cheats. And before anyone says it's 'only' one supporter, no-one else has challenged it so there is implicit acceptance all round.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Rafpilot2000 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 11:39

Sadly it is human nature that we often target other people to make us feel better about ourselves and our situation. It’s the reason car crash tv such as the Jeremy Kyle show has been so popular over the years.

I know Exeter have complained a lot , and probably rightly about Saracens but ultimately it was us who were relegated last season whilst Saracens were cheating and the financial impact of relegation is far more significant than winning the league. To that end we probably have more reason to be upset than anyone .

However there have been nothing but tempered and dignified statements from the club and we have maintained the absolute moral high ground.

I think a crisis shows a clubs true colours, Ealing and now Saracens being recent points proven.

I will continue to wish all supporters and clubs in the league well but the post about us is ‘disappointing’

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Monkey1 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 11:43

CD has got the point. It isn't just one, even their message board administrator seems to think it is funny. If anybody said anything on here that was so disgusting, about another club being in serious trouble due to the current crisis, they would quite rightly be disowned by the rest of us. Sarasins supporters however seem to think it is quite acceptable.

I would make an exception if their sugar daddy became unable to support their sordid club after the virus has gone & they were left with massive debts. I really would have to work very hard indeed to shed a single tear. To be honest, I would laugh so much that my knees might explode, and they only have themselves to blame for making me that way.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: limpopo (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 11:49

Quote:
steve1888
Sarries wouldn't need to be down 2 year , they took measures to get under the cap this season and assuming they do next then they're fine.
Some fans will always be one eyed but remeber these forums are a minority of a clubs supporters and a lot stay off tehm due to the amount of@#$%&posted on them.

They may have a fair point about living costs but that needs taken up with Premier Rugby not just acted upon. I doubt many of us could sunddenly move to London and live the same on the same wages.
True but the players are not exactly underpaid are they?

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: Monkey1 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 11:56

There is a very deep irony in their stupid argument about London-weighting of salaries, when you remember that they were buying the players London houses on the fiddle.

Anyway, London-weighting may apply to nurses and teachers, but is hardly applicable to rugby players on some of the highest salaries in the Premiership.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: limpopo (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 12:00

The point that I was making Monkey, it's like trying to compare apples with oranges

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: stuart66 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 12:20

Limpopo maybe a case could be made that they where underpaid as the inquire said the players where on lower saleries than players at other clubs with star players on half what they could have got at the likes of bath. one of the ways the judge consided them in breach of rules was the amount they where payed in sponsorship and public aperances which I would expect to be higher in London for international stars than in Newcastle anyway and for interest freeloans from the club. My employer does interest free loans I had one when I started with them to cover my travel expences while changeing to monthly pay and when I ran out of ssp and was waiting for first universal credit payment which I will start repaying when im back at work. even HMRC does not cosider loans to employees as salerias

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: SimonG19 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 12:29

As a club it has been clear for years that Saracens are morally bankrupt.

I'm sure they have some decent fans but looking at their SN message board it is consistently clear those that administer it and many of their posters are as morally bankrupt as their poisonous club.

Re: Are Saracens morally bankrupt?
Posted by: limpopo (IP Logged)
Date: 08 April, 2020 15:12

Quote:
stuart66
Limpopo maybe a case could be made that they where underpaid as the inquire said the players where on lower saleries than players at other clubs with star players on half what they could have got at the likes of bath. one of the ways the judge consided them in breach of rules was the amount they where payed in sponsorship and public aperances which I would expect to be higher in London for international stars than in Newcastle anyway and for interest freeloans from the club. My employer does interest free loans I had one when I started with them to cover my travel expences while changeing to monthly pay and when I ran out of ssp and was waiting for first universal credit payment which I will start repaying when im back at work. even HMRC does not cosider loans to employees as salerias

However you want to paint the picture, they were still not underpaid and as you have pointed out they got juicy sponsorship deals and other generous fees. I do not believe that company loans comes into the equation to support it the London Weighting argument, also I am very doubtful that they were paid half the amount of Bath players, but I have no figures to support my argument, I imagine few do.

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