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Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: saruman (IP Logged)
Date: 14 May, 2020 23:27


Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: stuart66 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 07:51

wow for once the guardian has'ent made up a story

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: dick g (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 09:25

Will ignore the above slur. The report is brilliant and its recommendations could save Prem rugby which is teetering on the brink. PRL, RFU etc must use the Covid Crisis as an opportunity to get the pro game on a sensible footing. We might not get another opportunity.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 10:05


Re:Exce llent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 10:24

Myner's recommendations are just that, they have no force until they are voted in by PRL. It is notable that players have to declare very bit of income& have to be prepared to to share their tax returns. DORs are also very responsible- they should know or have known of any salary regs. breach,
if not they become culpable.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Bedlington Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 10:56

Weren't the marquee players a sop to clubs that were talking about legal action? I don't recall how they came about. I hope these recommendations are acted upon though, otherwise what's the point?

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 12:31

You are right BL about marquee players as a sop in a previous bust up about the salary cap. From memory the club under suspicion was Barf, not Sorries.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: alas (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 15:04

Both Bath and Saracens were in the frame.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Monkey1 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 May, 2020 19:05

The marquee player fiddle was to enable clubs who were breaching the salary cap to miraculously not breach it the following season while keeping the same expensive contracted players. It should be scrapped, the cap lowered to something more like what the clubs can sustainably afford, and the punishment for deliberately & cynically breaking the rules should be crippling.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: aidanb (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2020 00:37

We all need to recognise ourselves in this picture.

PRL and the goings on aren't a fantasy episode on the other side of the pitch barrier.

When rugby returns we need it to be sustainable and healthy.

I will happily see the Falcons survive with 45 local lads if it means the rest of the top flight does the same.

non of this cheating bollocks. etc...

reset

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2020 10:05

Quote:
Monkey1
The marquee player fiddle was to enable clubs who were breaching the salary cap to miraculously not breach it the following season while keeping the same expensive contracted players. It should be scrapped, the cap lowered to something more like what the clubs can sustainably afford, and the punishment for deliberately & cynically breaking the rules should be crippling.

Definitely a sop to the clubs struggling (or refusing) to stay under the cap, but it was only ever a short term solution. Just making names up here, but if Saracens' salary cap suddenly no longer includes Farrell and Itoje, then Billy and Mako might understandably say "Well, you've got a bit more money free to increase our salaries". So it keeps a club under the cap short-term but causes problems down the line.


Guardian article: "The number of players costing their clubs at least £300,000 per year has risen from five in the 2013‑14 season to 99 in 2019-20, with the 24 marquee players costing their mostly loss-making clubs a total of £14m in 2019-20. "

This is incredible. Other than *maybe* Toby Flood because of his career and profile, I can't think of any other player we could possibly be paying £300,000 to. Worcester and Irish can't have too many. So the other 10 clubs must have a fair few between them. To stay under the salary cap with so many highly-paid players, there must either be some fiddling going on at several clubs, or their other players are being paid very little. Either way, these salaries surely aren't sustainable against current turnover.

I don't begrudge any player maximising their own earnings, but from the clubs' point of view, surely salaries need to be controlled better. Scrapping the marque player (over a few years perhaps, to prevent lots of lower-paid players being dumped to make room for Charles Piutau etc in the cap), is a start.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Osric (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2020 10:58

Good stuff, if acted upon.

Fewer overseas signings. Fewer over paid players. Al clubs living within their means.

Our turnover is c £10 million. That includes paying for a rugby union squad, a rugby league squad and all the other wages and costs associated with running a professional sports club. We have been £2-£4million short each year for a while. This is simply not sustainable and even a full KP wouldn't fill the shortfall ( and there isn't the interest in the game to fill KP).

The salary bill has to reduce across the board and if that means English clubs can't compete with the French and Irish in Europe, so be it. At least the game will be on a sustainable footing.

Question is, will it be accepted?

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2020 11:19

To add to Monkey's post I quote fromM yer's report- ' It is clear to me that the marquee-players exemption completely cuts across the objectives of equality and competition and creates unhelpful inflation pressure on wages.' Despite this Briss have signed Radradra in addition to Charles Piatau !

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Rafpilot2000 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2020 12:13

This is no different to the premier league though. You have the likes of Man City able to buy anyone they want and a small number of clubs financially capable of competing at the very top for honours whilst the rest scrap against relegation and dream of a mid table finish. It's difficult to financially limit English teams who are playing in European competitions against teams that have financial superiority and much stronger squad as a result.
There should be a sensible cap but whatever it is there will still be teams who can't compete. And equally you can't add in owner 'means testing' as a criteria for promotion. If the cap was limited then it may attract other wealthy individuals to invest if its not seen as a black hole.
The punishment should be clinical and brutal to those who break it. Saracens have got no more than they deserve though stripping them of their titles would also seem fair as athletes caught doping lose their medals. I think Bath needs to be very careful to as they are 'allegedly' guilty too but have escaped free , which seems unfair and allows Saracens to take the full hit. Exeter have right to be upset but need to appreciate that it is the relegated teams, like us who have lost the most.
We are incredibly lucky to have Semore running our club and being steadfast in ensuring its survival and competitiveness in the current environment . I would just like to see him having the chance to recoup some of his losses whilst seeing the team he has looked after bring him home some silverware to give him some reward.
Let's ring fence the premiership , let's share tv rights and get outside investment , all teams getting the same budget each year, all teams equally attractive to players. And see where we end up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/05/2020 12:30 by Rafpilot2000.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
Date: 16 May, 2020 16:30

My twopence worth, scrap the marquee player rule, it does nothing for English rugby or promoting young English players. Secondly, I donít agree with a one size fits all salary cap, it should be a percentage of turnover, adjusted for producing players for the National team. Not sure why, say Tiggs with a bigger fan footfall canít spend more than us, or Sale who have a relatively poor fan base. (Despite the heroics of our commercial team)

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: dick g (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2020 08:33

Implement the report's recommendations now. If it means Prem clubs cannot compete with French clubs so be it. Do we really need European competition? I mean NEED. My only concern is the future of top-level English rugby. This is what we see the most of. If the report is not acted on, I fear for the future of the Falcons and our domestic competition.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2020 16:23

Picking up on rafpilot's point about owners, I checked owners in the Sunday Times richlist and other sources: SteveLansdown (Briss)£1.35bn., Nigel Wray (before stepping downfrom Sarries )£315m,Bruce Craig (Bath)£300 + sponsorship from the richest man in the UK, Dyson. At the other exteme is Jed Mc Crory (Wuss) £4m.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Rafpilot2000 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2020 16:28

Horus , interesting stats. I guess it's just a shame that clubs struggle to make a profit which means the owners have to support financially . In an ideal world it would be cost neutral for them, with the club simply enjoying their business savvy to promote and organise the club .

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: JustAnotherOnlooker (IP Logged)
Date: 17 May, 2020 21:04

Quote:
Rafpilot2000
This is no different to the premier league though. You have the likes of Man City able to buy anyone they want and a small number of clubs financially capable of competing at the very top for honours whilst the rest scrap against relegation and dream of a mid table finish. It's difficult to financially limit English teams who are playing in European competitions against teams that have financial superiority and much stronger squad as a result.
There should be a sensible cap but whatever it is there will still be teams who can't compete. And equally you can't add in owner 'means testing' as a criteria for promotion. If the cap was limited then it may attract other wealthy individuals to invest if its not seen as a black hole.
The punishment should be clinical and brutal to those who break it. Saracens have got no more than they deserve though stripping them of their titles would also seem fair as athletes caught doping lose their medals. I think Bath needs to be very careful to as they are 'allegedly' guilty too but have escaped free , which seems unfair and allows Saracens to take the full hit. Exeter have right to be upset but need to appreciate that it is the relegated teams, like us who have lost the most.
We are incredibly lucky to have Semore running our club and being steadfast in ensuring its survival and competitiveness in the current environment . I would just like to see him having the chance to recoup some of his losses whilst seeing the team he has looked after bring him home some silverware to give him some reward.
Let's ring fence the premiership , let's share tv rights and get outside investment , all teams getting the same budget each year, all teams equally attractive to players. And see where we end up.
I'm 100% onboard with that! A team like us coming down and putting 40+ points on a team like Doncaster does far more damage to the Championship than ringfencing ever will.

13 team league, 18 game season (6 teams twice, 3 teams once at home, 3 teams once away)

6 team play-off format.

Season starts in February and the final on the last Saturday in September.

Ideally I would like a 14 team league with the teams split into North/South conferences but don't think that'll happen with Leeds going to the wall.

Re: Excellent read, no wonder we canít compete
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2020 14:50

Myner's report states the recommendations should be accepted and implemented en bloc. Already there is a attempt to cherry pick bits. Lansdown supports the salary cap at £7.0m, but wants to keep the marquee rule (no surprise then). Then how many marquee players would there be at Briss? In addition to Charles Piutau and Semi Radrada, All Black Steve Lautau is in the squad. He will be joined by Kyle Sinckler. The marquee rules only allows two players to exceed the salary cap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/05/2020 14:55 by Horus.

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