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Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Heathen (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 16:55

According to documents now appearing on Facebook.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Jack9909 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 17:22

What's the significance of this?

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Marlovian (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 17:52

It looks as though ACL were interested in buying Wasps from Steve Hayes. It obviously fell through as he put the club up for sale and it was subsequently bought by Derek in 2013. ACL either wanted to maximise the use of the Ricoh or they saw the writing on the wall with SISU withholding the rent and moving to Northampton.

Apart from putting the Ricoh on the radar I don't see it has any significance.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: wombles222 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 19:10

Really interesting SISU open letter CCC today. Exceptionally inflammatory and basically calling the council liars. Cannot see this helping at all, and will only serve to entrench everyones positions even more! With such disparity in perceptions of events it is hard to know where the truth lies (likely somewhere in the middle) yet the repeated court judgements are more telling than the open letters to me. Equally I can also understand why Wasps and CCC have taken their stance against SISU. The only problem here is that this SISU response has possibly torpeedoed Coventry Citys chances of remaining at our stadium, and hugely damaged Coventrys ongoing existence. As usual though I feel for the fans of Cov (not the ones that spout bile and wish we were to go under though, cannot abide that view at any time to any other club in any sport, it reflects that of a truely unpleasent individual).

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: SarrieSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 20:30

Quote:
Marlovian
It obviously fell through as he put the club up for sale and it was subsequently bought by Derek in 2013.

Or Richardson bought the club knowing an option/agreement was in place or likely for a move to the Ricoh at a bargain price? Certainly makes the talk from both Hayes and him about how they were trying to keep Wasps in London sound a bit weak.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Rob Smith (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 21:07

What are the dates involved ?



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@robsmithrugby

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: The Fumigator (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 21:07

Quote:
wombles222
Really interesting SISU open letter CCC today. Exceptionally inflammatory and basically calling the council liars. Cannot see this helping at all, and will only serve to entrench everyones positions even more! With such disparity in perceptions of events it is hard to know where the truth lies (likely somewhere in the middle) yet the repeated court judgements are more telling than the open letters to me. Equally I can also understand why Wasps and CCC have taken their stance against SISU. The only problem here is that this SISU response has possibly torpeedoed Coventry Citys chances of remaining at our stadium.


Problem is that the council have been disingenuous, starting from when they insisted that a pathway to ownership existed when in advanced discussions with Wasps. The other issue, that Eastwood never responds to, is that spitefully kicking CCFC out of the ground won't stop the legals. You know, the ground it was built for and the only reason it exists...


I try to be balanced as much as I can but it's posts like yours that make it hard for me to keep up the goodwill. What's really quite galling is having people in Coventry brag about Wasps kicking the club out. That's how bloody irritating it is that Wasps were ever allowed in.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: wombles222 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 21:38

Quote:
The Fumigator
Quote:
wombles222
Really interesting SISU open letter CCC today. Exceptionally inflammatory and basically calling the council liars. Cannot see this helping at all, and will only serve to entrench everyones positions even more! With such disparity in perceptions of events it is hard to know where the truth lies (likely somewhere in the middle) yet the repeated court judgements are more telling than the open letters to me. Equally I can also understand why Wasps and CCC have taken their stance against SISU. The only problem here is that this SISU response has possibly torpeedoed Coventry Citys chances of remaining at our stadium.


Problem is that the council have been disingenuous, starting from when they insisted that a pathway to ownership existed when in advanced discussions with Wasps. The other issue, that Eastwood never responds to, is that spitefully kicking CCFC out of the ground won't stop the legals. You know, the ground it was built for and the only reason it exists...


I try to be balanced as much as I can but it's posts like yours that make it hard for me to keep up the goodwill. What's really quite galling is having people in Coventry brag about Wasps kicking the club out. That's how bloody irritating it is that Wasps were ever allowed in.

You can be as balanced or as unbalanced as you wish that is your perrogative and also based on your viewpoint. As KW has said previously you are always welcome on here as discussion needs more than one point of view. However mine is based upon many years of looking at the evidence as it has appeared and nomatter what we hope for CCFC (and as I have said before it would be better to have a partnership going forward) I cannot abide SISU, I cannot abide those that wish Wasps to go under because we moved to Cov, and I cannot agree with those that see Wasps, ACL, CCC as the protagonists of CCFCs problems.

Also Eastwood gave SISU more than a seasons notice of what they would do if they continued the legals it is by no means unfair...as the owners of the ground that is their right. You want to save CCFC then it is up to SISU. They own every single part of CCFC and as their asset can do EXACTLY what they want with the club, it is their property, and when you take away the emotional elements that is what it boils down to, CCFC is theirs, and thus what they do has a direct impact on the club.

Goodwill is not based upon people consistantly agreeing with you..."goodwill" is expecting to be disagreed with and respecting their view is as equal as your own...If your goodwill is dependant on people matching your own views or expectation it is doomed from the start.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Vespulavulgaris (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 21:40

Quote:
The Fumigator
Problem is that the council have been disingenuous

Yep, the council. They're the ones who have been disingenuous...

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: The Fumigator (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 21:53

Quote:
Vespulavulgaris

Yep, the council. They're the ones who have been disingenuous...


Everyone has been. We know that the former Council leader was on record as stating a pathway to ownership existed when it never did. May I ask what has changed since Nick said this, considering it regards the same legal action which is taking place today?


'Mr Eastwood said: “I hope it gets resolved. I don’t think it will affect the relationship between Wasps and Coventry City.
“We understand there is a difference between ownership and the management and people operating the football club day to day.
“If that is what they feel they have to do to protect the football club, then so be it.'

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: The Fumigator (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 22:07

Quote:
wombles222

You can be as balanced or as unbalanced as you wish that is your perrogative and also based on your viewpoint. As KW has said previously you are always welcome on here as discussion needs more than one point of view. However mine is based upon many years of looking at the evidence as it has appeared and nomatter what we hope for CCFC (and as I have said before it would be better to have a partnership going forward) I cannot abide SISU, I cannot abide those that wish Wasps to go under because we moved to Cov, and I cannot agree with those that see Wasps, ACL, CCC as the protagonists of CCFCs problems.

Also Eastwood gave SISU more than a seasons notice of what they would do if they continued the legals it is by no means unfair...as the owners of the ground that is their right. You want to save CCFC then it is up to SISU. They own every single part of CCFC and as their asset can do EXACTLY what they want with the club, it is their property, and when you take away the emotional elements that is what it boils down to, CCFC is theirs, and thus what they do has a direct impact on the club.

Goodwill is not based upon people consistantly agreeing with you..."goodwill" is expecting to be disagreed with and respecting their view is as equal as your own...If your goodwill is dependant on people matching your own views or expectation it is doomed from the start.

It starts with conflating criticism of non-SISU parties with exoneration of SISU for any wrongdoing. Booting out the club does not stop the legals and it punishes the wrong people. I never expected Wasps fans to agree that their 'side' is completely blameless in the fiasco-but I did genuinely expect a bit more from a club that has led a nomadic existence for several decades. Never mind the hypocrisy in relocating from London to the Midlands before criticising another club's temporary move 30 miles away.


That's what causes many over on SBT and elsewhere to go OTT. Irrational yes but when you even have Coventry-based Wasps fans bragging about kicking the club out it is taking the @#$%& somewhat. In an ideal world Wasps, SISU, and the Council would all sod off and the club would own the stadium it was ultimately supposed to own. In the real world, we are stuck with all 3. I'm not a fan of any of them.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: wombles222 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 22:30

I do not criticise Coventry for moving their club..far from it, however equally I also feel that you reap what you sow..by that I mean if the outcome was not that which was intended that does not mean it is no less earnt.

What people seem to forget is that Sisu own lock stock and barrel CCFC and that their actions dictate the reaction. CCFCs companies SBL and Otium are named on the legal actions also. It is not as simple as separating the two entities. It is naive to think that Wasps will simply bend over and keep saying to CCFC that they can stay at the Ricoh..oh and by the way your owners can keep taking us through court proceedings as long as they wish to and try to distress us.

It is all in SISUs hands..stop the legal wrangling (which of course CCC keep winning) and work with us. The ball is in your owners court, their actions will dictate the outcome, and like it or not CCFC is theirs to do with as they wish, you want to try to influence someone, try to manage the captain of your own ship.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: The Fumigator (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 22:42

Quote:
wombles222
I do not criticise Coventry for moving their club..far from it, however equally I also feel that you reap what you sow..by that I mean if the outcome was not that which was intended that does not mean it is no less earnt.
What people seem to forget is that Sisu own lock stock and barrel CCFC and that their actions dictate the reaction. CCFCs companies SBL and Otium are named on the legal actions also. It is not as simple as separating the two entities. It is naive to think that Wasps will simply bend over and keep saying to CCFC that they can stay at the Ricoh..oh and by the way your owners can keep taking us through court proceedings as long as they wish to and try to distress us.

It is all in SISUs hands..stop the legal wrangling (which of course CCC keep winning) and work with us. The ball is in your owners court, their actions will dictate the outcome, and like it or not CCFC is theirs to do with as they wish, you want to try to influence someone, try to manage the captain of your own ship.


I and many others have protested against and criticised SISU for years, long before Wasps came on the scene. You'd struggle to find a handful of people who still want them around. That's what is always forgotten when criticism of Wasps and the council is brought up. But I will put Eastwood's words to you again, and ask: was he wrong (if so why), or if he wasn't, what's changed?


Mr Eastwood said: “I hope it gets resolved. I don’t think it will affect the relationship between Wasps and Coventry City.
“We understand there is a difference between ownership and the management and people operating the football club day to day.
“If that is what they feel they have to do to protect the football club, then so be it.'

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: wombles222 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 23:04

Eastwoods comments are very clear. He recognised that their is a division between your owners and CCFCs management, and that most likely both want to work together, he sympathises with that However equally he is saying that he has to protect his own business and that if SISU want to continue litigation then their repercussions will affect CCFC. It is cause and effect, and SISU have total control over what happens to their asset, in this case Coventry City. It is unrealistic to expect Wasps to indefinitely keep extending the tenancy at the Ricoh at reduced rent as as much as it helps City it equally continually safeguards SISUs asset to allow them to continue litigation whilst Wasps carry all the risk. Wasps have every right to protect themselves and fight their own battle as they see fit. Sisu control the outcome of Coventry based solely upon their actions.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Marlovian (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 23:05

Quote:
The Fumigator
But I will put Eastwood's words to you again, and ask: was he wrong (if so why), or if he wasn't, what's changed?

I believe you're quoting comments regarding JR1 but it didn't stop after that court loss. Your owners insisted on continuing vexatious legal action and, as wombles said, you reap what you sow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/03/2019 23:07 by Marlovian.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: The Fumigator (IP Logged)
Date: 28 March, 2019 23:16

Quote:
wombles222
Eastwoods comments are very clear. He recognised that their is a division between your owners and CCFCs management, and that most likely both want to work together, he sympathises with that However equally he is saying that he has to protect his own business and that if SISU want to continue litigation then their repercussions will affect CCFC. It is cause and effect, and SISU have total control over what happens to their asset, in this case Coventry City. It is unrealistic to expect Wasps to indefinitely keep extending the tenancy at the Ricoh at reduced rent as as much as it helps City it equally continually safeguards SISUs asset to allow them to continue litigation whilst Wasps carry all the risk. Wasps have every right to protect themselves and fight their own battle as they see fit. Sisu control the outcome of Coventry based solely upon their actions.


You do understand that CCFC's extinction will not stop the legals right? It will also not plug the £10 million a year hole in Wasps' finances nor will it do much for 'your' standing in the city. The legal action following the failed JR1 is still around the same point of contention. So why does Eastwood acknowledge it as 'SISU acting to protect the football club' then, but not now?

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Libero82 (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2019 00:09

Quote:
The Fumigator
Quote:
wombles222
Eastwoods comments are very clear. He recognised that their is a division between your owners and CCFCs management, and that most likely both want to work together, he sympathises with that However equally he is saying that he has to protect his own business and that if SISU want to continue litigation then their repercussions will affect CCFC. It is cause and effect, and SISU have total control over what happens to their asset, in this case Coventry City. It is unrealistic to expect Wasps to indefinitely keep extending the tenancy at the Ricoh at reduced rent as as much as it helps City it equally continually safeguards SISUs asset to allow them to continue litigation whilst Wasps carry all the risk. Wasps have every right to protect themselves and fight their own battle as they see fit. Sisu control the outcome of Coventry based solely upon their actions.


You do understand that CCFC's extinction will not stop the legals right? It will also not plug the £10 million a year hole in Wasps' finances nor will it do much for 'your' standing in the city. The legal action following the failed JR1 is still around the same point of contention. So why does Eastwood acknowledge it as 'SISU acting to protect the football club' then, but not now?

You've hit the nail on the head. My estimation is that the bad will generated by evicting CCFC will ultimately result in Wasps demise (at least in terms of Coventry). This is mutually assured destruction and demonstrates gross stupidity on all sides.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: Penn Wasp (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2019 05:57

I am.one of those open to consider the views of others, and even changing my mind if facts behind a jolly good argument warrant it.

But I see fumigaotor's postings quite strange in that they are emotional trying to be reasonable.

House builder builds a house for XYZ
XYZ who wanting to buy the house wants an improved deal
Distressed builder offers the house to another buyer
The new buyer moves in
XYZ acts like a spoilt brat, and tries to bulky and hurt everyone else because essentially they messed up by being nasty
Bully hates not getting what they want and cuts their nose off to spite their face

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: The Fumigator (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2019 06:48

Quote:
Penn Wasp
I am.one of those open to consider the views of others, and even changing my mind if facts behind a jolly good argument warrant it.
But I see fumigaotor's postings quite strange in that they are emotional trying to be reasonable.

House builder builds a house for XYZ
XYZ who wanting to buy the house wants an improved deal
Distressed builder offers the house to another buyer
The new buyer moves in
XYZ acts like a spoilt brat, and tries to bulky and hurt everyone else because essentially they messed up by being nasty
Bully hates not getting what they want and cuts their nose off to spite their face

Tinges of emotion when we have one club threatened with league expulsion-kind of makes sense. Though the analogy of a house doesn’t work for a few reasons.

1. The club made a significant contribution to the building of the ground and was an equal partner in the venture until about 2002/3.

2. Due to a perfect storm of financial challenges the club sold its stake to the Higgs under the assumption it would eventually be bought back.

3. The club proceeded to pay £1.2m a year in rent for nearly 8 years and sacrificed its access to some match day revenues. SISU come on the scene in 2007 and are pitched as the only show in town to prevent administration-so the shares are handed over.

4. At some point in 2012 we see clear evidence of ACL wanting to bring Wasps to Coventry, before the failed rent strike achieves that by another route. We also see, contrary to Council claims, that HoT were agreed on a stake in ACL at some point in 2012/early 2013.

5. In the first 5 years the Wasps project moves towards heavy annual losses, declining on pitch performance and attendances. Over the same time Eastwood moves from a recognition that the legal action is separate from the club and that SISU are ‘trying to protect the club’ to holding the club responsible for it’s owners’ folly.

This is more akin to going in half and half on a house with a family member, then hitting hard finances which reduce you to an unfavourable tenancy. The family member then seeks a stranger to move in despite assurances that you will still be able to get your share back. The stranger, despite having a totally stacked deck in their favour, proceeds to lose enormous sums anyway.

Re: Ricoh move being discussed with Steve Hayes in 2012
Posted by: westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
Date: 29 March, 2019 07:18

Who the stadium was built for is irrelevant, as is what ccfc put in prior to financial difficulties. Pretty sure half the country has buildings built for people/organisations no longer there, and everyone has put money, toil and sweat into houses they no longer, and in some cases, never did own.

For me personally, fhe moment ccfc were taken away from the Ricoh, in an attempt to get it cut price, they lost all moral authority.
At that point I would rather the club die as it is than the owners get what they want via such tactics, regardless of whether Wasps are involved or not ; such people as SISUbare a cancer on the game, and ccfc would be better reforming in the lower leagues as Coventry Sky Blues or whatever, where I imagine they would find immense good will and would rapidly rise given the appetite for football in the area.

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