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Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 17 September, 2019 18:53

Quote:
tedge
Quote:
ajack
How does buying someone out of a contract work? I assume Saints and Corbus would need to agree to this and Saints would get some sort of compensation and have his salary available to pay another player and the payment would be a matter between Corbus and Montpellier.
I have no idea if that is true but would be interested if anyone actually knows. If so I am guessing Saints would demand a large wedge of cash.

Curious really - not having to pay his salary is one thing but is of no real benefit compared to losing him potentially fora season ,or in this case most of a season. If "compensation" is demanded by the "selling" club how is an acceptable amount calculated ? Even in football where transfers are commonplace I don't think anybody really knows how figures are arrived at. Maybe the sellers do a bit of kite flying and pluck a figure out of the air, double or treble it according to how rich they think the buyers are, and haggle until they agree an amount. Do the players' agents have anything to gain and do they get involved or are they only, in rugby, concerned about their player's salary and presumably any commission they might get ? It's all rather murky.


Ajack - have asked someone who should know, be back ASAP



Player valuations? Much easier to derive in football through forecasts of shirt sales, proportion of TV revenues etc over the lifetime of contract. But yeah still just a horse trade...

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: SaintGuy (IP Logged)
Date: 17 September, 2019 19:15

Quote:
Awaywin
Re: Nic White I stand corrected. I was a little unsure as I know he hasn't signed for anyone.
Reckon will be the tahs

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 September, 2019 22:21

Quote:
Le marseillais
Cobus is a annouced as absolutly certain to play for Montpellier next season, french newspaper say.
as our lovely friend from Clermont has stated Ďnext seasoní not this. Why on earth would we allow out player of the season to depart mid contract. So this smacks of French getting in early and getting a pre contract of sorts before English clubs come sniffing in January or before Saints do the rounds have of contract renewals. Plenty of time to plan either a direct replacement or a no.2 to Mitchell if he continues on his improvement path. Of course put no.3 & 4 may also be good enough that we donít need a replacement.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Scooby Saint COYS (IP Logged)
Date: 17 September, 2019 23:32

Just to echo comments above, in no particular order, Iím:
- gutted if we lose him next year, as heís terrific;
- delighted for him if he leaves on megabucks;
- relieved that we have exceptional young talent coming through in his position.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: SaintMaul (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 00:19

Quote:
Walks11
Why on earth would we allow out player of the season to depart mid contract.

Because we have no powers to force him to stay if Montpellier are prepared to pay the damages for breach of contract. That leaves the choice of matching the wages on offer in France which would blow away our wage structure and risk breaching the salary cap.

In situations like this the law only provides a right of compensation for the loss suffered for the breach of contract. It's only a contract for services so a court isn't going to make him see out the contract (known in law as specific performance).

People break contracts all the time. There is no punitive additional compensation for breaching the contract. The damages merely tries to put the party back in the position they would have been in but for the breach of contract through financial compensation. Given we are no longer liable for his wages and could use those wages to pay a replacement, the compensation is not the mega-bucks some posters seem to envisage I'm afraid.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 07:34

Most of the above assumes it is all down to Montpellier offering him a large amount of cash. It could be there is some kind of division in the camp or Corbus want to leave for personal reasons. I have no idea why he is leaving, if indeed he is. I also have no idea how you buy a player out of a contract but would be interested to hear from anyone who does.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 07:44

You just offer compensation, as a horse trade, for losing the player for a year


As far as Iím aware there isnít any disruption or whatever in the camp. In fact some players have suggested this is the most cohesive bunch and best team spirit theyíve ever encountered.


If you have 2-3 years left of rugby, why not take silly money in France? He owes us nothing.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 08:37

I am not saying he shouldn't, however once contracts are easily broken, if indeed that is the case, I am not sure that is great for the game or the individuals in it long term. It might open up loop holes in the salary cap as well if a player receives a percentage of their "transfer fee" as I believe is the case in football. From what I am being told if it is a happy camp and there are no personal reasons for leaving Corbus must be getting a better offer and Saints feel they are getting enough compensation to let him go and Montpellier are getting what they want so everyone wins.

Still not sure it is the way I would like to see rugby go long term.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 10:36

oh yeah I totally agree but i am afraid 'player power' is happening in all sports globally

have a google on 'antonio brown oakland' or 'ezekiel elliott cowboys'......



do we have any idea on the metrics used for Picamoles transfer fee?

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 10:48

I have no idea how the Picamoles situation was resolved. However I guess it does mean the two clubs concerned have been through the process so at least have that to build on. I thought with Picamoles it was down to the player and family not settling in England rather than just a higher cash offer, but I could be wrong about that.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 11:48

We must have been able to offer Picamoles a pretty sizable package to prize him away from France in the first place, so the structure to offer the money is there.

Is there the possibility of making Cobus one of our Marquees? If Dylan is currently one of them, is he likely to be on such a high wage with his international days seemingly at an end and injuries becoming more significant next season?

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 13:33

WE LOSE MONEY, for the millionth time

The Chairman and CEO have plans to move us into profitability over 3 years

Picamoles signing was under the loony tunes recruitment policy of allowing Jim to do whatever he wanted



The idea of hosing huge marquee money on a scrum half whose game relies on pace and is getting into the end of his career, would be be utter madness

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 13:51

Would Picamoles have been on more money than Biggar? I thought Picamoles was brilliant during his time at Saints, not sure where the loony tunes bit comes from? As we have seen with Haskell sometimes it is not all about the money and people are not on what others might think.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 14:05

looney tunes = lack of financial rigour IMHO.... we were losing money hand over fist and shelling out on players like Picamoles



happy to be corrected if wrong

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 14:22

But we are still losing money aren't we? I could be wrong but I thought Biggar was in the top ten paid players was Picamoles on more? Both are great players and add to the team but I don't see Biggar being worth more than Picamoles who I thought was brilliant at a time when Saints were not.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 14:45

Biggar not signed by Boyd .....


I would not have signed either given our finances

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 15:27

Quote:
Wilson Pickett
Biggar not signed by Boyd .....

I would not have signed either given our finances

I think that Biggar will be self financing, given how he is helping to bring to the crowd a brighter style of rugby than that under Mallinder.

Not sure I would argue the same about Picamoles.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 15:30

Football clubs often talk about a certains players shirt sales. Seems odd that there isn't ever a stat based upon a rugby player. I appreciate that footballers have squad numbers rather than position numbers, but you don't often see a Hartley 2 shirt in the crowd.

It would be interesting to see how many shirts are sold on the back of someone like Biggar or Picamoles being signed.

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 15:33

I think because basically we would sell a few thousand each year, most of whom live within 100 miles of the ground


Football clubs sell millions all around the world

Re: Reinach Rumours
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 18 September, 2019 17:48

Quote:
ajack
How does buying someone out of a contract work? I assume Saints and Corbus would need to agree to this and Saints would get some sort of compensation and have his salary available to pay another player and the payment would be a matter between Corbus and Montpellier.
I have no idea if that is true but would be interested if anyone actually knows. If so I am guessing Saints would demand a large wedge of cash.

it becomes, in effect, a transfer fee. Saints get compensation for losing a player they cant keep.
Modern wisdom would also likely be that you don't keep an unsettled player especially on high wages.

Saints were pretty successful with a young team or without many star names last year and i think you have the type of game and set up to continue that better than most.

Shame but take the money if he wants to leave early..

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