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Transfer chaos
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 22:56

There are not many sides that have announced next seasons signings. With Sarries going down, I wonder what happens to previously agreed targets. Boyd said we were all done, but the availability of Sarries players may change things. Will Kpoku choose to join us? Could Earl now be available?

Will the senior stars choose to spend 2 years in the Champ, risking international call ups? Will the up and comers risk their exposure at the detriment of international honours?

Now that they're no longer going to be Premiership players, are they going to be Marquee eligible? Also, Taylor signing for us when he did looks like a master stroke from him.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:01

Will Nigel Wray be prepared to lose £2-3m per year whilst not even being a director, he has to honour the current contracts but after that?

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:05

That 2-3 million... That's what they were over the Cap. What about the other 7 million? How does that get paid? Gate receipts? Sponsors?

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: ch saint (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:12

Fascinating permutations. As I understand it Sarries have to be within the cap in the championship for two seasons before being eligible for promotion. So whatever happens it seems they have to unload about £2m of annual wage cap, that's only about 4 players, so not a mega problem from that point of view.
Many of my friends worry about the England situation, I don't see it as a big issue. Some players will stick with Sarries, some will leave to other English teams, some will go abroad. More importantly EJ will be bringing in new blood anyway.
The game moves on without an elephant sized cheat. Happy days.

Re: Transfer chaos
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:31

Would you want players who expect brown envelopes as well as salary ?

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:31

Would have thought Kpoku is far more likely now.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:37

Quote:
Saint Stokey
That 2-3 million... That's what they were over the Cap. What about the other 7 million? How does that get paid? Gate receipts? Sponsors?

[www.saracens.com]


Page 6, they have lost £2-5m per year for the last 5 years

Yes youíre right that number may be higher for him personally. Revenue will take a beating, some players will leave, the wage bill will be slashed but not enough.

Re: Transfer chaos
Date: 18 January, 2020 23:39

But thatís ok his daughter owns it now. Iím sure sheís very happy with that pressy

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 00:13

Boyd in the Chronicle saying Saints aren't interested in targeting Sarries players and there are only 2 or 3 spots left to fill for next season

Equally, we've lost 3 of our highest paid players in Cobus, Dylan and Heinrich so there's got to be some cash to spend.

We'll need another scrum half so we have 4 but with Mitchell and Taylor, we only need a VFM squad player like Matavasi replacing Dylan. So we can spend the money elsewhere.

I don't see any needs in the backs. With Sleightholme already looking accomplished at first-team level, even wing looks covered. It's rare to see a novice player make so few errors like Sleightholme which bodes well.

It sounds like Kpoku and Shields for the other 2 spots. But with Wood playing well still, I'd extend his contract for another year rather than Shields. Kpoku is a beast. I'm just not sure 5 and 6 is where we'd most benefit from recruitment. More like 1 and 8.

We've got a great opportunity to challenge for trophies in the next couple of seasons but our pack needs a bit more power to keep us in the game against the packs of the very best teams so our backs can do their thing. IMHO.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 04:59

Could play into the RFU hands and they contract the Saracens England contingent?

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: ramseysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 07:11

Quote:
Brackleysaint
Could play into the RFU hands and they contract the Saracens England contingent?

Wasps and Quin's could be getting some free players*

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Former Hollywood Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 08:45

Interesting point made by Sam Warburton yesterday on BT Sport. He mentioned that the players will probably have loyalty to Sarries and would want to stick with them, however with the internationals and Lions tour coming up, that could change. With all due respect to the Championship, they cannot really show you are on top form and playing at an international level. To show they are ready for internationals and the Lions, they need to be able to prove themselves at the highest level.

Its something I didnt really think about if I'm honest. Going on a demolition tour like we did won't show much. They would have to look at going out on loan a la Mark Wilson to keep playing at that high level and be noticeable.


Also Stokey said player would spend 2 years in the Champs. Its only 1 season isnt it, or did I miss something?




FHS

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: St Saltaire (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 08:45

Good post St Maul. Our pack seems to be improving at the set piece, helped as well by the reduction of scrums and the change in refereeing (not all collapsed scrums are now given as penalties).
Iím not sure that we need another No. 1 but do need another 8 to give Tei some respite. Tom Wood has upped his game and is worthy of another year if he wants it. Courtney can play 6 if Joel Kpoku does come.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 08:58

Saw a quote from Chris Boyd yesterday that he was happy with roster and are only 2-3 players short in terms of next season. So a couple more in but he also said we donít and nor does any English club have £500K spare in cap to bring in one of the Sarries superstars. They will go abroad or stay put I suspect even if itís only some form of loan agreement and end up back at Sarries. England will either have to invoke the special circumstances rule around selection or just not pick them.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Saintly Pursuit (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 09:12

What benefit would there be to a Premiership team to take one of them on loan for a year?

1. It helps Sarries - no thankyou
2. Any benefit to the loanee would only be for one season - no thank you
3. There wouldn't be massive add on benefit i.e. box office or mentoring of younger players
4. It would possibly cause anger amongst supporters.
5. We can't afford it if we have to pay their salary
6. If Wray is still paying them then there is a massive conflict of interest
7. Disruption to existing squad moral

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 09:25

Itís their problem. Willians is going. Looks like Kruis is going. Thatíll take a decent chunk off. Theyíll let contract enders go Iíd think, the likes of Clark, Wiggy, Rhodes, Figallo, thatíll take some off. Others will go to other Premiership clubs, personally Iíd quite like to see us in for Kpoku. Thereíll be others. Others may take a pay cut to stay. Their squad will likely have to be smaller, depend far more on genuine academy products, like we do and have less ďbig timeĒ. They are going to know what they have to do, itís for them to balance. Iím not sure the staying for two years has been confirmed has it. Iíll believed that when I hear/ see that actually is the case. On the playing side Iím assuming theyíll come straight back. Before someone tells me the two year thing is a Premiership rule/ regulation we know that means very little. Assume theyíre Championship for one season if they keep the core of their squad. They should be demoted to the lowest league like Rangers FC and fight their way back, like Rangers FC!

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 10:07

Looking at the timeline for Sarries players

19/20 season: no chance of Premiership top 4
20/21 season: Championship. No European Cup
Lions tour at end of season.
21/22 season: If promoted, back in the Premiership. No European Cup
22/23 season: earliest season where they could get back into the European Cup if they qualify

So 3 years until they'll be able to be in knock out European rugby again and playing Championship rugby will hinder Lions selection.

Mako Vunipola will be 32 then. As will Jamie George meaning last chances at trophies. 3 years is a lot harsher penalty on players than clubs.

Jamie George has Cowan-Dickie breathing down his neck with MOM performances like yesterday. Staying with Sarries may well cost him his England place and Lions.

If you are a player with international ambitions like Kpoku, Earl, Singleton, Lozowski etc then those 3 years is their optimal window to get international selection before the next World Cup before the next batch of youngsters get their chance. Staying at Sarries may mean their window for international selection has closed for ever.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 10:10

Quote:
Saint
Would you want players who expect brown envelopes as well as salary ?

Let's be honest, do we really think that any of our current playing squad would say no to more money, especially if the hierarchy of the club gave them the impression this was all above board (which presumably they did). In fact, better question that that, would you??

I don't think we can blame the players here.



Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700

Come and say hello!

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: lilyg (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 10:33

Quote:
Former Hollywood Saint
Also Stokey said player would spend 2 years in the Champs. Its only 1 season isnt it, or did I miss something?
FHS

The current Championship rules say that the club winning promotion must show that they have operated within the Premiership salary cap for two years - the year of promotion and the year before. Currently, they will spend two seasons in the Championship IF the rules stay the same, but I wouldnt put it past the RFU to change that asap!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/01/2020 10:36 by lilyg.

Re: Transfer chaos
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 19 January, 2020 10:55

Players will have to take what money they can get on new deals. There might be a lot of cheap 1 year deals done. Kind of compensation for the damage done earlier

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