Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: tedge (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 08:49


Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Saintsby (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 09:40

Quote:
Chris Boyd
There doesn't seem to be a pathway there but I think there should be.
Hey Chris its the AreFU your talking about don't hold yer breath mate(Sm8)

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 12:06

Boyd hits the nail on the head yet again in needing clear coaching pathways. I suspect Boyd also looks at the English club traditional style of play and the untapped potential/risk-aversion to trying new things.

It's something I've always wondered how come we have so few decent English coaches. There are a lot of intelligent rugby players so if they get the pathways right it would help take both the England team and English club game to the next level.

The last English coaches who were thought-innovators were Ashton and Woodward. Since then we've been copying what others do.

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 12:18

Coaches gaining exposure abroad would help too like O'Gara developing his coaching at the Crusaders.

How many English coaches have done 1st tier professional coaching abroad? Since Woodward how many can you think of: King, Worsley, Borthwick, Catt. Jim's doing performance in Scotland. It seems scarily low.

How many have had DoR/Head coach coaching roles abroad? Ermmmm any? Yet I can easily think of Kiwi, Oz, Saffers, Scots, Welsh, Irish and French who have



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2020 14:28 by Saint Maul.

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 15:40

He's right. If only you had a coach with that level of understanding when Hepher and Hunter were looking to transition to coaching.

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Margin_Walker (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 15:59

A couple of LI academy coaches. Jon Fisher (who you'll recognise) and Jack Pattinson ran a podcast during the lockdown talking to different coaches each week including the likes of Eddie Jones and Brian Ashton. Also from other sports and skill acquisition specialists.

There are episodes where they spoke to both Mark Hopley and Phil Dowson that may be of interest here.

[www.buzzsprout.com]

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Ginger Prince in Stockholm (IP Logged)
Date: 31 July, 2020 17:51

Quote:
Saint Maul
Boyd hits the nail on the head yet again in needing clear coaching pathways. I suspect Boyd also looks at the English club traditional style of play and the untapped potential/risk-aversion to trying new things.
It's something I've always wondered how come we have so few decent English coaches. There are a lot of intelligent rugby players so if they get the pathways right it would help take both the England team and English club game to the next level.

The last English coaches who were thought-innovators were Ashton and Woodward. Since then we've been copying what others do.

I know of a bloke that used to live in the 'shire and was Level 2 qualified. When he spoke to the Rugby Development Officer about accessing level 3 in the future, he was told "Oh no, the level 3 isn't for the likes of you" - said bloke was a PE teacher and rugby coach.

And there began a catch-22 for that bloke: can't get into coaching at a pro club at any level without a level 3, can't get a level 3 unless you're coaching at a pro club at any level.

Does this still occur or have the glass ceilings at many different levels been removed?



Ginger - The Colour of Sexual Rejection

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 08:37

Is the fact that overseas coaches like Boyd get the top jobs over home grown ones not part of the problem? New Zealand sides will pretty much all be coached by New Zealand coaches and yet the will still have a good number working in Europe and Japan. For anyone who didn't watch it there is a link below about the career of Wayne Smith and the way he came through the ranks as a player and a coach, well worth a watch.

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 01 August, 2020 17:27

Also worth remembering that there are a lot less top New Zealand teams. So once the 5 Super Rugby sides have their full quota of Kiwi coaches (and the odd foreigner, like the Lam's, O'Gara and the Welsh chap at Crusaders) where else do they go?

Over here, we have more than double the clubs so more that double to coaches required to fill the spots. With relegation a constant threat plus the desire to reach European competition, there is a real need to get coaches in that have had the majority of their training and experience so that they can hit the ground running.

The Premiership really needs more like Boyd or at least more focus on the training on British coaching.

So, I get the reason why overseas coaches come in but it's great to see what Boyd is doing. Having said that, I'd be quite happy if he extended, perhaps as a DoR with one of our coaches in a Head Coach role whilst having a wise old head to offer guidance.

Re: Developing English Coaches is the way ahead
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 02 August, 2020 08:26

It must be borne in mind that there is a very different culture in NZ particularly towards rugby in general and competition in particular.

For many years our culture was one of "non competition". Competition means losing, losing means failure; we don't want anyone to feel that they failed. Sport is about winning.

During that period, performance standards fell alarmingly. It shows. And it started from the top. Our coaches were not allowed to "monster" those under their control. Example - they allowed poor passing techniques to stand, doing nothing to rectify the process.

Foreign coaches have a better base. But this is changing as we get back to realising that in order to improve, we must a) accept that we can improve and b) accept the criticism of techniques presented in a positive light.

We are on the way.

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net