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Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:02

[quote Helmet and sack]Interesting points made here. I'd like to add one regarding the two team approach. One of my key beliefs is that a coach should always pick on form and that the squad competition drives standards. By using a two squad system, you are effectively reducing the level of competition as you are more or less guaranteeing everyone a game every other game.[/quote

With the current restrictions and number of games you cannot select on form. You pretty much have to have a first and second team or split the side with the odd tweak and movement to and from the bench.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:03

Conversely your guaranteeing some players an opportunity to showcase themselves that perhaps wouldn't get the shot..mix that with 6 months off they should be like ravenous dogs.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Helmet and sack (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:14

True enough, it's not a perfect suggestion but there could still be some truth in it. Other teams' selections have been less telegraphed game to game and yielded better results (I'll not suggest that's the only reason for our poor form). Watching us continue our telegraphed pick and drive towards the line before spewing up the ball in the red zone was as predictable as anything this year. Surely we have practised some drills for that scenario that don't rely on a simple pick and drive.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: charlieemeriau (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:22

A lot of intersting points being made.
I do feel that apart from the game against Chiefs we have lacked front foot ball, I would like to see a reinforced pack, with Ribbans and Lawes in the second row, and playing ludlam, Teimana and Adendorff in the back row (for me Addendorff has been one of the only positive since the season restarted), if we need to change anything in those 5 would like to see Isiekwe come on.
add to this, If we could get someone at fb that can deal with the high ball then we might be in with a chance to win.

I hope some of the youngsters will benefit from the experience, however we have players that I feel are not at the level Lewis Bean and Api (everytime Api gets the ball, I wonder how long it will take before he knocks it on).

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:23

Who knows...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2020 21:25 by Hymenoptera.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Aberavon Wizard (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:24

Ajack

I think there is another way here and that is to rotate maybe 5-6 players each game which always gives some continuity from match to match. Pat Lam seems to favour this approach in effect splitting your resources into five key groups with three starting, one on the bench and one rested each game.

All a bit late now !

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Helmet and sack (IP Logged)
Date: 09 September, 2020 21:55

Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Ajack
I think there is another way here and that is to rotate maybe 5-6 players each game which always gives some continuity from match to match. Pat Lam seems to favour this approach in effect splitting your resources into five key groups with three starting, one on the bench and one rested each game.

All a bit late now !

This approach ticks my boxes. Some continuity would have been good. It never really works in football when a new and totally different squad is produced regularly for cup games etc.

Adendorf is our first choice #8 now surely. Get lawes in the second row with ribbans or moon. Kind of wish Isiekwe was really ours. He's the real deal. 80 mins of graft and ballast with some other @#$%& in there too.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 07:21

Quote:
Helmet and sack
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Ajack
I think there is another way here and that is to rotate maybe 5-6 players each game which always gives some continuity from match to match. Pat Lam seems to favour this approach in effect splitting your resources into five key groups with three starting, one on the bench and one rested each game.

All a bit late now !

This approach ticks my boxes. Some continuity would have been good. It never really works in football when a new and totally different squad is produced regularly for cup games etc.

Adendorf is our first choice #8 now surely. Get lawes in the second row with ribbans or moon. Kind of wish Isiekwe was really ours. He's the real deal. 80 mins of graft and ballast with some other @#$%& in there too.

As you say, Isiekwe is not one of ours but he looks the most disappointed to put it politely at the end of the matches.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 09:53

Quote:
Brackleysaint
Quote:
Helmet and sack
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Ajack
I think there is another way here and that is to rotate maybe 5-6 players each game which always gives some continuity from match to match. Pat Lam seems to favour this approach in effect splitting your resources into five key groups with three starting, one on the bench and one rested each game.

All a bit late now !

This approach ticks my boxes. Some continuity would have been good. It never really works in football when a new and totally different squad is produced regularly for cup games etc.

Adendorf is our first choice #8 now surely. Get lawes in the second row with ribbans or moon. Kind of wish Isiekwe was really ours. He's the real deal. 80 mins of graft and ballast with some other @#$%& in there too.

As you say, Isiekwe is not one of ours but he looks the most disappointed to put it politely at the end of the matches.

Says a lot......the Isiekwe bit. Speaks volumes about him.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 09:55

Quote:
smitferbrainz
Quote:
Brackleysaint
Quote:
Helmet and sack
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Ajack
I think there is another way here and that is to rotate maybe 5-6 players each game which always gives some continuity from match to match. Pat Lam seems to favour this approach in effect splitting your resources into five key groups with three starting, one on the bench and one rested each game.

All a bit late now !

This approach ticks my boxes. Some continuity would have been good. It never really works in football when a new and totally different squad is produced regularly for cup games etc.

Adendorf is our first choice #8 now surely. Get lawes in the second row with ribbans or moon. Kind of wish Isiekwe was really ours. He's the real deal. 80 mins of graft and ballast with some other @#$%& in there too.

As you say, Isiekwe is not one of ours but he looks the most disappointed to put it politely at the end of the matches.

Says a lot......the Isiekwe bit. Speaks volumes about him.

It probably says more about us to be honest.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 10:02

Quote:
ajack
Quote:
smitferbrainz
Quote:
Brackleysaint
Quote:
Helmet and sack
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Ajack
I think there is another way here and that is to rotate maybe 5-6 players each game which always gives some continuity from match to match. Pat Lam seems to favour this approach in effect splitting your resources into five key groups with three starting, one on the bench and one rested each game.

All a bit late now !

This approach ticks my boxes. Some continuity would have been good. It never really works in football when a new and totally different squad is produced regularly for cup games etc.

Adendorf is our first choice #8 now surely. Get lawes in the second row with ribbans or moon. Kind of wish Isiekwe was really ours. He's the real deal. 80 mins of graft and ballast with some other @#$%& in there too.

As you say, Isiekwe is not one of ours but he looks the most disappointed to put it politely at the end of the matches.

Says a lot......the Isiekwe bit. Speaks volumes about him.

It probably says more about us to be honest.

Itís funny you say that. I was going to add that bit to my post, but decided against it for some reason. If you look at my last comment in the expectations thread I allude to it. I kinda put it there instead, but youíre totally right.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 13:35

So it wasn't just me who caught Isiekwe's facial expression when he came of the field and looked at Saints players as he was approaching the Saints bench area.

Easy to read too much into things and his mind could easily have been somewhere else entirely.

But it looked to me like someone who was approaching a group of people he was disappointed with, even hacked off with rather than brothers in arms.

Sarries have nothing to play for but their 2nd team fought tooth and nail at Sale last night. When Dom Morris did the massive hit on James in the dying seconds that led to their losing bonus point I compared it to the commitment and work-rate of Saints players. Frankly the work-rate and commitment in far too many games is not good enough and has been highlighted by commentators in different games since the re-start. Exeter we seemed a lot more committed but against Bristol we reverted sadly.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Boris197 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 16:29

One other significant factor I believe contributing to the reduced level of performances since Covid is the absence of Cobus the best Saints player of last and the early part of this season .His attacking qualities were obvious but his defensive qualities were equally good and his ability to cover back saved a number of certain tries and were probably the difference between 5 and 0 points in several instances. There is also the psychological boost that his attacking and defensive efforts provided . Games are often won by small margins and his contribution was often critical.
This leads to an underlying problem that Saints have been unable to hold on to their talisman players. Prior to Cobus it was Picamoles and before that Manoa. Few teams could maintain the same level of performance following the loss of their best player.

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Dragonboy (IP Logged)
Date: 10 September, 2020 20:26

[quote Saint Maul]So it wasn't just me who caught Isiekwe's facial expression when he came of the field and looked at Saints players as he was approaching the Saints bench area.

Easy to read too much into things and his mind could easily have been somewhere else entirely.

But it looked to me like someone who was approaching a group of people he was disappointed with, even hacked off with rather than brothers in arms.

Plus he just isnít used to losing

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2020 11:43

Leadership is a great point. The successful teams invariably have driven and inspiring leaders:

Saints c.2000: the difference Lam made
Saints golden era: Dylan
Tigers golden period: Johnson
Wasps golden period: Dallaglio
Sarries recently: Farrell and Barrett

It's not just one leader. There is often a spine of leadership beyond the captain in successful teams. But you get the point.

Internationally - World Cups
95: Pienaar
99: Eales
03: Johnson
07: Smit
11: McCaw
15: McCaw
19: Kolisi

Whilst it's only one piece of the jigsaw, we need that leader to build standards and desire around. It's the little clues like the way we allow try scorers to run round to score nearer the posts when teams like Sarries and Exeter always do everything to stop this. The leaders above would have not accepted that. Small details like that when combined make the title winning teams. I admire Exeter because they get these small details spot on

Re: Is it all as bad as it looks?
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2020 12:30

Quote:
smitferbrainz
Says a lot......the Isiekwe bit. Speaks volumes about him.

It does. It says he's used to playing in a team where you leave it all out on the field. You don't wonder aimlessly to guard, or trundle about the field from breakdown to breakdown when quick support is needed to make them quick. I suspect it's a culture shock to see such a lack of professionalism from many of his team mates. Address that and you'll have taken a huge step in making Saints the club they could be as you have quality players in most positions and the age demographic of the squad is incredibly encouraging for your future.

I feel for Boyd. He seems on the wrong side of the A & B team V mixed team decision that most clubs made but fair play to him for choosing and continuing to back that call. Maybe it will pay dividends next season? Just having a quick look your signings for the past few seasons it feels a lot like you may be over-paying for the players you have as a few big names aside the players you're recruting tend to be from the Championship or those surplus to other teams requirments. Nothing wrong with that if you find players who suit the team and ofc you promoted a huge bunch of Academy players.

I doesn't look like you can match Bristol in Marquee terms spend but in cap you have quite a few "top" players who seem poor value. Either of the Franks brothers? Proctor (suggested in TRP to be on over £350K) That's almost certainly £1M+ of cap right there. Naiyaravoro also suggested to be on huge money and wing always seems an odd place to spend heavily.

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