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Next season
Posted by: SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 15:25

I understand we are all frustrated and for good reason, none of us have seen us look as bad as of late.

But I do think we need to give the coaches and players next season to see what they can do.

When youngsters are playing badly they need training time to correct it, at the moment, we play game to game with very little training.

When the confidence is high you want to play game after game, when confidence is low you need to work on things in training then play a game, train, game, train etc. At the moment we are playing game after game without having time to fix it.

So for that reason I think we need so see if we can improve next season.

Would it be my fault if my boss was telling me I needed to work on ABC and was not giving me the time to do so?

Granted all the teams are in a similar position, but we have a lot of youngsters and I think the interpretations have not helped our wide-wide game with the lightweight players we have. (more players in the defensive line.) When we recruited players how were we to know they would make these big changes mid-season.

So all I am saying is that imho, we need to give them next season to see if they can get us back to playing good rugby with normal training time.

If they cannot then we will have no option than to have a big reshuffle.

Re: Next season
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 15:35

I actually view it completely differently. For the first time since the end of the Solomons era I would like to see us lose badly between now and the end of the season to bring this all to a head.

There is clearly something very wrong in the camp. I have no idea who or what is causing this but we are clearly not a happy well organised camp.

The coaches and players we have are far better than what is being produced week in week out at the minute. If whatever it is not sorted PDQ it will just spread even further. If things carry on like they are we will be right in the relegation battle next season.

Re: Next season
Posted by: WilsonP (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 16:00

Agree with Ajack.

I would rather we lose and heads roll particularly to sort out our forwards who are all over the place. I have completely lost faith in them. Scrums are a mess. Line outs are a mess. Breakdown work is the worst in the Prem. Forwards arenít carrying over the gain line apart from Lawes, Ludlam and sometimes Tei... itís embarrassing. I thought over time they would sort it out with Dowsonís known leadership skills and Fergusonís passion which is evident when you hear interviews. But itís really not working, I mean really not.... without that platform just forget everything else in rugby.


Someone in the boardroom should also take responsibility for gross mis-management of the cap and resign. Just one example, Biggar is a territory 10 and we are playing running super rugby. He canít run! Part of the style is a ball running 10 who creates the space outside by offering a running threat which narrows defensive lines. Itís a complete waste of money (£600k or whatever), may as well set fire to it. Yes I know he was signed before Boyd but why heís been extended just beggars belief. Good bloke, top man around camp etc but in the light of day he does not represent good value and doesnít fit our system. Plus his priority is Wales when allís said and done (yes I know heís a top
Pro).

Jackson Garden-Bachop, the now starting Hurricanes 10, on £150-200k per year (guess), and would be available every game, is proper value. Donít tell me he couldnít fit our system and wouldnít be good enough for the Prem. Tigers just battered us with an unproven nobody at 10 (nobody yet). Then we can spend the £300k+ extra on a big proper number 8 who is preferably a leader. Maybe Adendorff works out but with better cap management we donít need to be taking punts on unknown players in key positions.


Personally.... I wouldnít sign someone like Jackson G-B. I would release Biggar ASAP and play Furbank at 10. I think heís an incredible talent and from the limited game time we have seen, he looks very natural and has all the skill sets of a truly world class 10. Grays can rotate and cover 15 too... which may be a good spot for him. Furbank also shows some frailty in the defensive aspects of 15, particularly the high ball... so why not.

I would tell Moon, Ribeye and Api that they need to add a stone of more bulk and just be some heavy animals. We have 2 incredibly athletic elite locks in Lawes and Isiekwe. Would stabilise the scrum and add ballast in the maul.

I would give Franks a rocket and tell him he needs to start being a leader when you have those caps and are on decent money.

I would decide who is best talent at hooker and invest in them. I think itís Marshall, heís more robust... seems 3rd choice albeit back from injury.

I would recruit a breakdown consultant for 1 month. Someone like Pollock, George Smith... just pay them decent money to come to the UK for a month. Get that knowledge base into Vesty and others - itís a one off small cost with long term knowledge retention. If the coaches have too much ego to allow that then they arenít the right people for the club. They can go too. Ludlam and Harrison should be causing utter chaos, I can only remember a handful of turnovers since we re-started.. there should be a handful every game.

I would tell Alex Mitchell to get the ball out faster. Play tapes of Matt Dawson in his prime, when the ball is down get it out immediately. I think heís going to be a world top 5 scrum half so he just needs some direction. That said he often has messy ball.

The senior players need to stand up and start taking responsibility for not just theirs but also the other lesser players performances. We need real men as leaders... show some pride in yourselves.

Get all that sorted and then I think it flows and we are a very good side lol

Re: Next season
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 16:21

Have you lot been reading our boards? sounds very familiar, is it an East Midlands disease?

Re: Next season
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 18:27

We should wait a year. Not because its the right response to the poor rugby but because its the right way to give them all time to adapt to the new world. We also have everyone under contract so we cant afford to sign anyway.

Re: Next season
Posted by: andysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 18:37

Agree with all apart from the biggar comments. The coaches should adapt the system to the players abilities not the other way round. I get why there is a call for a super rugby style but when did that win the league or a European cup? I like watching super rugby but I also like watching defensive displays which are at times non existent over there. I just want to see rugby that wins Iím not to particular bothered about the style which is probably why I was always a Myler fan over the flashy 10s.

Re: Next season
Posted by: ch saint (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 18:38

Yep you have hit the nail on the head
Where has the east midland axis gone
I suppose its moved over to Coventry
Terrible state of affairs Tigerburnie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/09/2020 18:40 by ch saint.

Re: Next season
Posted by: Angus67 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 19:21

I thought that this was supposed to be the a new era, dead wood cleared, new blood, new way of thinking foundations for the future, young English coaches .

Wilson P is 100% correct with the Franks rocket. I seem to remember that post 2003 RWC, Ben, and Steve Thompson lost their edge, I can understand it in a way because they have reached the absolute peak, what else is there to prove? The idea of the Franks coming got me hopeful, but they never came close to playing at their best.

There needs to be some harsh conversations at the club, no tea and biscuits.

Re: Next season
Posted by: HerbieSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 19:26

People seriously need to calm down.

We should absolutely wait until next year. Tigers are in their mess because they overreacted too many times to poor runs of form and made several hasty sackings. We were one of the best teams in the league until Christmas, we were suffering a bit of a slide prior to lockdown, and we have unfortunately not recovered well since the tournament resumed, in part because teams have worked out how to nullify our attack and we have simply not had the time or the training sessions to come up with new plays.

We are in uncharted waters this season, with insane numbers of games piled on top of each other, and sacking the staff or making wholesale changes to the squad on the basis of this highly unusual season would be pure madness. We have to give Boyd and his coaches the chance to turn things around in a somewhat normal environment - which they have already shown they can do, since joining at the end of the Mallinder era.

Re: Next season
Posted by: Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 20:48

I just think Boydís vision leaves very little room for error, and he has completely under estimated the physicality of the premiership. When he came here, teams were perplexed, but theyíve now worked out how to slow down our fast game. Challenge us in the set piece, so we are not on the front foot, then we have no plan B

Dorian West, I thought was always right when he said to win titles. your pack has to be dominant. It really is the old adage, Forwards win games, Backs decide by how many points.

Can you think of a weaker, under powered pack than ours, other than perhaps London Irish??

Why would you give Boyd another season, if he is going to continue with the same strategy?? I think he and the coaches look void of new ideas.

My only other observation would be to say the players have let us down. In particular the likes of Franks, Biggar, who are on big money but are not delivering any kind of value.

Re: Next season
Posted by: andysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 20:56

To be fair Boyd talked about a new conservative approach after the tigers game. Iím keen to see how that turns out in reality

Re: Next season
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 21:04

Itís good to speculate on forums like this about what we should do. However, itís not what we should do itís about what we can do. Why wouldnít we give Boyd another season? We are contractually bound to or we have to pay his contract off. We probably canít afford to as a club. We have to sort the thing out with the present personnel until contracts expire, we canít afford any other way. If we decide to pay contracts off we probably wonít be able to afford to recruit. Itís okay to speculate but itís pointless suggesting that coaches are fired, we probably canít afford it as a club. Owen Franks is an issue. Heís probably on a high wage and heís under performing. What should be done? Not sure. The coaches could punish him, train with the academy, not pick him in match day squads notwithstanding injury issues. Pointless with our front row issues. He probably knows how ineffective he is. Again we probably canít afford to pay his contract off. In a way weíre in a similar situation to the latter days of Jim and Dorian, when they got long contracts. Itís frustrating. Iím not sure of the answer or if there is an affordable answer. Iím of the opinion that next season will be mid table at best. I donít see relegation personally but weíll find out part way through that season who our next DoR will be and that will tell us something of where weíre going as a club in terms of playing style, strategy and, to a certain extent likely recruitment strategy. I donít believe that the DoR will be Chris Boyd on a re signing. All that said the coaching group will likely remain the same, money again. I think that ďour bed is made and weíll need to lie in itĒ.

Re: Next season
Posted by: SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 22:31

Wilson P, what you would do sounds great but not that long ago you were singing Boyds praise and telling us all that he will do great at Saints, nailed on top 4 etc. So forgive me if I put more trust in someone that has won a major rugby competition instead of just talking a good game.

Re: Next season
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 07:28

It was nailed on top two this season wasn't it?

Re: Next season
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 09:57

did he make this prediction pre-Sarries relegation? If he did, perhaps he mean Top 2 of the Championship.

Re: Next season
Posted by: Saintsby (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 09:58

Ajack and WP agreeing? (well sort of!) and honestly so do I. I remember the dire games of the Solly era and the feeling of relief when he went. OK we got relegated not long after and at the end of that last Prem game I was as choked and moved by the impassioned speech by Bruce and I among others 'pledged' Its that kind of passion I want to see return because this lot at the moment are seriously letting the Jersey down from coaches to players. lets face it a 'team' that can't score against 13 men in 10 minutes and a team at the bottom of the league at that says it all. If we don't or can't turn this ship around 2021 will be a dogfight at the bottom and Saints will be in it.

Re: Next season
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 09:59

Thereís a thread below about Wilson Pís absence from this board. The general flavour of that was that although his views are often ďedgyĒ and often disagreed with, his comments were missed. Iíve certainly missed them, even though we disagreed from time to time. He always tries to evidence and explain his points. Maybe months ago he was singing Chris Boydís praises, plenty were including me. He may have predicted top two, I canít remember but plenty of us early this season were expecting great things, I certainly was. Maybe heís changed his view on Chris Boyd and the current coaching set based on the fact that weíve lost 10 of the last 12. I have. Is there any need to make the above comments based on someone having a change of opinion? I can see why people absent themselves from boards like these.

Re: Next season
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 13:18

It was never really a case of "I've changed my opinion" more a case of "I'm right even when I'm wrong" and the tone that I think amused some and annoyed others.
I found it amusing which is why I used to post to WP (in jest) to pick him up on it and see the reaction.
I happily got things way out last year with my 7th place prediction. Not so chuffed this year when I thought we would still be out of the top 4 (I had hoped to be way out again with us storming to a title).

Re: Next season
Posted by: WilsonP (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 13:27

Thanks Smitferbrainz, my thoughts are wasted here. Too many chippy morons. I think they need to do some exercise or at least get outside more.

At least I tried, enjoy.

Re: Next season
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 14:02

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and of course we are all wrong from time to time. It does become more amusing when people rather than give an opinion state that things are "nailed on" and are abusive to others who have a different opinion. Again calling people morons highlights the problem.

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